A BREAKTHROUGH in UFO Disclosure? & The Magic of the Gateway Process | Chris Ramsay

the UAP range from floating brains to boomerangs 600 M long discs um a cube formation of 12 metallic spheres skimming an HD footage of this skimming the ocean right his imagination is like the appendage that you reach out with in these non-physical States when you're playing on these borders of Consciousness just a lot of things you become acutely aware of the fact that a lot of things can happen on the blurry borders of Consciousness atam Monroe Institute Retreat that's for sure when I went through my body I actually went down lower about 2 3 in and I felt I could go lower and that scared me even more I did feel like an like a yeah phasing through your physical for me it it shifted my entire perspective on everything welcome back to the transmission my friends and I suppose that I too am back as we did not really release a mind meld last week for the first time and I have no idea how long but as attuned listeners know I do have a good excuse because I was undergoing a Gateway process or Gateway Voyage retreat at Monroe Institute it was beautiful it was impactful somewhat reality quaking honestly my friends most of us have no idea what our Consciousness can do how deep it goes but more on that later in this very mindmeld and in future Transmissions I'm sure as there's just so much to share so much on my mind but in this one we've got not just that novelty but so much more the mysterious Immaculate constellation leak that has a UFO Community salivating we've got reaction and some summary to at least the most tantalizing bits of the recent UFO testimony before congress with a man who was not just in DC during the hearings but in the room none other than fellow seeker and truly Elite content creator Chris ramsy you may know him from his main Channel or perhaps his utterly fantastic new channel Area 52 in which Chris investigates and experiments with remote viewing out of body experiences sigh phenomena and the UFO UAP topic with just really unparalleled production value it's so much fun to watch so inspiring I can never wait to see what Chris does next I really look to him as like a YouTube Senpai you would honestly be a fool to not go subscribe to Chris's channels links for those are in the description same for third eye drops and on the note of this channel my friends that algorithm tickling is of the utmost importance this week after missing out on a week of content so do like subscribe comment share also check out third eye drops wherever you listen to audio podcasts we've got hundred and hundreds of mind melds with really brilliant beings and if you'd like to rap with me and hundreds of other truly just sweet Seekers join a patron only Discord server a book club partake in live Zoom mind melts get rewards like stickers pin shirts and more then Orient your sensory portals toward patreon.com third ey drops I would really love to rap with you there but for now my friends let's meld mindes with Chris Ramsey welcome back to the Mind meld my friend this is this is going to be a special one I feel like it's I'm I'm still in that strange Lial phase that you you know well coming back from a Gateway Retreat um so first of all thank you for helping lubricate that to occur and second I'm just massively excited to talk to someone else who's experienced it because we're in a small fraternity my friend in more ways than one as we're going to discuss yeah I mean I'm super happy I'm first of all I think you're the perfect person to go and do this a because I think you know you do have like this open mind and uh open to like the spiritual and to whatever else may exist but B I think that it's important to tell people about this it is I think you know uh communicating this to your audience although last time I was on the podcast I was able to communicate my experience I think it's just so much more validating for your audience to hear it from from you and and I'm of two minds right now it's like should I should we get right into that or tease it because you also had something really unique and singular happened to you recently you went up to DC for the UFO hearings you got to be in the room during that which must have been absolutely surreal so there's I definitely have dual pronged thoughts for this mindmeld um let's start with you man let's start with your with your trip to DC first of all how how did that happen because I imagine getting into that room is not a super simple process yeah we'll start with the 3D reality and then we'll move into uh to the etheral I like it um so all of this came about I was um I started speaking to Jesse Michaels uh who you may know from American Alchemy you know great content creator in the space amazing and we start we started texting back and forth and I said uh let's go down to Austin to meet up and you know make some videos and hang out I have a friend down there as well and you know we can make a good time of it maybe 2 three days and do some stuff so I booked it all and then realized a few days before oh man we booked the exact date of the hearing and I said well okay maybe we could do like some type of watch party down there I definitely don't want to miss it you know in case anything groundbreaking uh you know tends to surface and Jesse hits me back and he goes I might have a way in to the room um you know through one of the witnesses I think namely uh shellenberger I think uh you know I think they're kind of close they've done videos before they've spoken before so he's like I think we might be able to get in uh with Michael shenberger and I said hey you know not against it obviously that would be a massive opportunity now here's the thing and I I mentioned this in my video since I got this is a weird tie to Monroe right now but okay since I've gotten back from the Monroe Institute you know I I can hear people rolling their eyes already but the numbers 1111 have been popping up for me once a day and I don't mean just on the clock I mean in the weirdest forms like uh whether it's on a piece of paper somebody says it or you know I did a podcast with Ryan bledo and and and we were in the overtime portion of his podcast and the clock counter I said to him I said have you ever seen the movie 23 you're into numerology and as I say that the clock reads 23 minutes 23 seconds and I just went that's a 111 in military time and like so all these things start connecting I don't know what they mean this happened for months now we're on the 9th of um November and I'm speaking to Jesse and Jesse goes yeah I don't know I'm on the fence about going maybe we don't go maybe we go this is last minute let's sleep on it and then he tells me and I have this on camera he goes look for the signs I guess whoa right and I'm like cool yeah I don't think anything of it and I when I was editing I saw this footage I was like oh my God and so two days later which happened to be the 11th of November 1111 I'm on my way to Chicago layover to Austin at this point we haven't booked DC we were still on the fence it could have been a no show and he texted me and he's like hey man maybe we should do it and so I'm like all right let me look at some flights real quick and so I pull up the flights app I think you know whatever American Airlines or whatever it was United and I screenshot all the flights and I sent it to them and then I go Jesse look at the time of the screenshot and the message I sent you it's 11-11 tell me it's flight 1111 too I don't know let me look into it I wouldn't be surprised at this point so at that point I was like we have to do it now and so there was a literal intervention that happened because we were very comfortable and we were leaning towards not going uh because we had already set everything up in Austin flights and and hotels and everything else so it we're like and we're probably not going to miss much you know and so but then I completely changed my mind I was like no we have to go now and so we ended up going so that's how I got there um once we were there we were ushered into okay we get to the Rayburn building which is across from the capital as a Canadian YouTuber puzzle guy magician you know I've got first of all the biggest case of impostor syndrome um like I should shouldn't be here um we get in it's it's pretty hectic you're seeing all the different you know prevalent names in in the UAP sphere you know the cor bells and the James foxes and all this yeah and um you know people coming out to Jesse for pictures and and that type of thing and kind of I'm kind of a fly on the wall I think it's an insane energy uh in this building at this point and right before the hearing we got to we got to be led in with press and we got access we got ushered into a back room wow with all of the witnesses all of a few members of Congress like Tim brette was there and some others uh previous Witnesses like Ryan Graves was there as well and so we're in this room with about a dozen people behind like in the backstage of the hearing and people are shaking hands there's like there's a very serious energy um the Witnesses are all holding their documents in their hands right they're all holding this is like the world hasn't seen this yet and this is there these are their opening speeches these are you know the documents they're going to present to to the Congressional hearing it's very heavy very heavy energy and I'm still kind of like flying the wall and then eventually they they say okay time to move out we move in we get front row seats uh Jesse and I I'm sat next to someone from very high up at Nasa who's there I guess what seemed to me he was like texting a play byplay every time Mike gold would speak so that was a whole other you know weird spooky Vibe could you explain who he is and what because he has a relationship is he like a contractor for NASA stuff is that what he is no I think he works at Nasa okay I think yeah he's uh he was actually on the NASA UAP hearing that NASA had which was again uneventful but it was I I I think he if I'm not mistaken I have to I have to look it up but I know that he works directly with NASA got um but he was uh you know he was basically saying hey we should use some of this NASA stuff you know and and uh and throw some AI on it see if they can and you know I think a lot of people in that building already knew that if if there are UAP NASA definitely has pictures of them and they know of this like it isn't you know so that was kind of weird and yeah and then Jesse and I were sat there the entire time um got to listen to the witnesses listen to the questions you know for me my biggest takeaway wasn't it wasn't necessarily the witnesses um I I do agree with a lot of the answers being a little lackluster because of you know restrictions and the fact that Mo I think none of them really had firsthand right you know um had anything to do with like these programs on a firsthand level maybe Lou but the questions asked by the congressmen and women specifically um were very interesting you know we they mentioned controlling the craft through Consciousness they mentioned uh Luna mentioned how people who believe in religion if they were to mention it that the phenomenon would disappear um yeah it was and most people did it flew right over people's head Luna I think is very deep into this topic and I don't know if she watches our videos or if she's been briefed in a skiff by whistleblower but she had some really interesting questions and then boerd as well had mentioned the talk on the hill recently was genetic experiments using nonhuman genetics to create hybrids yeah that blew my mind that that word even came up in that room yeah so yeah for me the takeaway was more the questions because I think that tells us a lot about what congre what type of information Congress is getting right now because they did not have time to read that report by the way before anything happened so they came in guns of Blazing with these questions already they probably were down a few rabbit holes that night but uh sure but yeah so that was and then you know uh we broke apart I went to the uh afterwards I went to a UAP disclosure fund which is like a a private company that's trying to raise money for whistleblowers to come out and shook a lot of hands there and and that was mainly my uh my experience man that it's it's first it just has to be so surreal to be there and second you know obviously there everybody online who's into this they want something crazy they want a Smoking Gun they want some piece of Arcane material produced or they want I don't know they want somebody to bring out like a cryogenically frozen alien head or some but I had to just sort of remind myself in the macro during the hearing and right after just how weird it is that this is even happening for one and also just small things like I took a of this when I was watching it within the first few minutes phrases like non-human intelligence and extraterrestrials were being openly used whereas I felt like before they would use much more innocuous ambivalent language you know like just just saying UAP or just unidentified aerial phenomenon or whatever it is but now it's just like it's slowly seeping into the Zeitgeist and the the collective psychology in a way where these words are just getting thrown around much more casually I agree and if there really is like a slow roll disclosure occurring that's how it's going to happen it's going to be slowly normalized through repetition of saying things and discussing ideas and escalating going up the chain like it's not just whistleblowers saying this it's actual members of Congress that are using these phrases that used to be relegated to like the fringes of the internet right and like super you know uh you know beyond toop secret.com or whatever back in the day and um yeah yeah so one I just think in the macro that's interesting but two I wanted to specifically on shellburg that whole thing that that whistleblower testimony that he brought out is so crazy and I'm wondering what your thoughts on that is and it's like even the like the you can tell like unless this again I always feel like I have to say this anytime this topic comes up unless this is all scop it seems like there's an incredible amount of energy around even like saying the name of this program like um was it um I forget her name the it was the primary woman who yeah yeah yeah mace she she was saying like apparently I'm on some list even if I say come at me bro yeah yeah even if I say the name of this program yeah that's what she said she she said come at me bro yeah right which is yeah pretty badass yeah yeah what are your what are your thoughts on that and also I'm curious too so this is I'll let you riff with with these two points you also did this multi-art series on the 4chan whistleblower right uh stuff and I'm wondering if there's anything in this hearing that perked up your ears in terms of that that seemed to corroborate anything that you you read in that and we might need to introduce what that forchan whistleblower um Saga is as well yeah yeah uh first of all um yeah the immaculate constellation document uh I also read through that uh made a video about that sort of reading through the entire thing and what first struck me is how dismissive the entire Community the UAP UFO Community was of this document I don't think a lot of people have really taken the time to read it because I think there was some very valuable information in there obviously like you said it wasn't a Smoking Gun and it is I think you know story it's a lot of but it is an official report from an alleged whistleblower that was submitted you know so there is some importance to it and some value to it um now there was some confusion about who uh brought this to Congress uh so there was a little bit of drama that happened that day um so Jeremy Corbell had basically presented the documents to uh representative mace right before the hearing he had also presented it to uh shellenberger he had shellenberger uh read through it and he presented it to um Timber cette as well I think a month before or something so this was Jeremy's document to give he gave in 12 Pages uh 11 pages of you know uh the whistleblowers testimony and then a cover page with his sort of resume on on that once it was submitted to Congress they had a from what I've understood a con uh conversation amongst the congressmen and women uh to remove that cover page because they didn't find it really pertinent to which I kind of agree you know it's like it starts off with like hey my name is Jer M Corbell I have a podcast called weaponized and you know like it it seems to detract a little bit from what we're trying to achieve so I guess they made uh an audible they called an audible to just remove that uh but Nancy had also said there was 12 page uh submitted and now there's 11 and now there's a missing page and the internet's like where's the missing page and what is it um so it turns out uh Corbell actually gave me that missing page that day uh myself and Jesse Jesse ended up tweeting it um so I don't think it has any importance to the immaculate constellation document but I do think for journalistic integrity I do think you know Michael shellenberger should have corrected uh her statement either in a tweet or maybe you know in in in that room uh because she definitely said that Michael shenberger brought and she thanked him for bringing in that document right okay yeah I think I think there was a small correction du that was a little bit of drama other than that the document itself was very interesting because it doesn't only site satellite uh data that they've pulled a Fleer data FMV you know full motion video data but it also uh cites a few human interactions uh with these you know with these UAP and the UAP range from floating brains to boomerangs to uh you know what was it like 600 meter long discs um you know just an in oh and um a cube formation of 12 metallic spheres skimming an HD footage of this skimming the ocean right wow um so and then before breaking apart so all of these you know near misses with uh with pilots and you know all that type of all that type of stuff but one thing that's stuck out to me and this relates a little bit to the 4chan whistleblower thing which I'll get into in a second is 95% of all of this happens near a body of water interesting yeah document yeah so you know I don't know whether that speaks more to the person The Whistleblower being perhaps part of some Naval intelligence or if that's just you know the swing of the pendulum and that's just what these things are doing they're just you know all over the all over the oceans mainly right um so in the previous few weeks I had been reading a really lengthy Q&A that happened on 4chin and not the most reputable platform you know uh but what was really interesting is that this kind of made headlines about a year and a half ago um because the alleged whistleblower that was in this Q&A said that he'd worked for a crash retrieval uh program within the government a top Seeker program monitoring a as he calls it mobile construction youit unit a giant mother ship that lives in the ocean that moves around and it creates UAP to spec depending on their missions sends them out and then takes them back in and that's kind of how that it goes really deep into into details of bodies into abductions into tools into all sorts of stuff um you know take it with a grain of salt obviously but there were definitely some things that stood out in that report that correlated or corroborated the alleged whistleblower's testimony and I would say mainly the main thing is um these things being from the water yeah you know these things coming uh and going into the oceans into some type of underwater base is the idea yeah and and didn't it also say that it printed the pilots themselves as well or that the pilots themselves were sort of these like sing single use beings or something like that I think that was I I think that was uh maybe just speculated okay they what was interesting about the pilots according to the to the 4chan guy was that they discarded the bodies they didn't really care so like if if one of these crafts went down which happened quite frequently apparently uh especially in Mexico there was like this area that had happened uh quite a lot and he said they do make a lot of mist akes by the way um when they went into retrieve the body which was still alive from this crash um they were basically being shot at until the aliens died and then they could go and retrieve it so it's almost like they don't they don't have any regard for their own preservation is what it seems like right and I jumped to that conclusion where if you're going to 3D print and they even said that possibly it looks like they're behaving using some type of AI like these uh most of these are are are not manned by anything and they're kind of like drones and they kind of behave in like this hive mind Ai and I thought well why not also have human biolog or uh humanoid AI or biologics that that act you know in this hive mind manner if we're going towards the future and looking into recreating artificial intelligence eventually I I can assume that we're going to transcend from using nuts and bolts to actually figuring out how the brain works you know and being able to perhaps create some type of soulless AI drone you know yeah by the way I so did Mick monagle show up to your gateway Retreat it was a surprise he did yes he did for us too and um obviously So for anybody that doesn't know Joe mcmonagle legend in the remote viewing Community dubbed remote viewer 001 supposedly the highest hit rate ever in the history of um you know project Stargate where they were uh recruiting all of these um psychic spies essentially so so um we haven't even started talking about the Monroe Retreat yet but but anyway um he came to both mine and Chris's Monroe which Retreat and by the way watch Chris's series and his interviews that he did with Joe they're amazing but I had to he was you know he's riffing as he does regaling us for for many hours and I I had to ask him about UFOs and like what they are what he thinks they are and if he's ever remote viewed one and he said something extremely similar that there that there's something like Ai and that they're I believe he said that they're like biological technological hybrids or something like that um but he was reluctant to say too much and then he kind of launched into another story but but also was saying you know I'm I'm not even really interested in that because not because it isn't interesting but because I can't confirm it and I can remote view hypothetically anything but if I can't but if there's no way to confirm it why would I bother doing that over and over again just drive myself crazy um so I thought that was interesting and a pretty good point honestly because you can just you know even the highest hit rate viewers in history like he is Apparently one of them you still don't know even if you're right 80% of the time there's a 20% of the time or that uncertainty where you can't get the confirmation so you just drive yourself crazy going down any kind of imaginal rabbit hole potentially that's a great I mean that's a great point because uh most people forget that 99% of their targets they never knew the outcome you know these were done by incred L uh secretive means I mean you know 505 missions over 17 of the 19 intelligence agencies and they never got feedback because these missions were top secret they you know the whether it's the dod or the DIA or the FBI or whatever they would just give the Target and take that information back they wouldn't tell them hey thanks for catching the bad guy they they wouldn't know any of this stuff right all they all they knew was they kept coming back right and I think that that you know is enough to boost your confidence yeah for sure for sure so on the note of this weird but highly novel and interesting maybe it's not super novel because most of the things in The forchan Whistleblower test testimony if you want to call it that are you could chalk them up to being riffs off of existing lore for sure yes but it's interesting enough and I and I feel like you towed this line well in your videos that it's interesting enough to pay attention to and there are some things that are worth considering and paying attention to and keeping in mind for the future as disclosure continues to slowly uh roll down the hill as it seems to be um so was there anything in that testimony in particular that made you think about the Whistleblower stuff the only supped whistleblower yeah there so there weren't a lot of answers given true you know a lot of the stuff we already knew uh what people were saying I think it was in the reluctance to answer some of these questions which we gained more information right uh you know especially with Lou alzando you know where they asked him were you a part of a crash retrieval team and he goes I can't answer that right and then and then which country uh did the first crash retrieval H I can't answer that and then it became oh lock so basically you have these private corporations that are reverse engineering you know this technology um if something were to be reverse engineered that came from the ocean you would give it to a certain company he said yes and then mace goes so what about Lockheed Martin do they work with things in the ocean and he goes ah yeah uh I can't uh that's a good question uh and he just couldn't answer I thought that was probably the most revealing thing that happened was knowing that lockeed Martin is also potentially reverse engering things that come from the ocean and and monitoring the ocean we often think of Boeing and lock heat as like these you know Space Giants yeah uh but uh really interesting to know that they're also you know interested in what goes on in the water yeah and there there's always this weird there's always this weird thing when they come up where people say something to the effect of they're a great company aren't they yeah that that happened in as the whistle blower onfor yeah and I wonder if that's supposed to be a subtle nod nod to like if you disparage them or you come at them they will they might they might do something back and you don't yeah yeah I mean I wouldn't put it past him I mean in that Boeing kind of made people disappear didn't they yes they did that's what I was going to say and I'm like man I don't I don't want that smoke I'm a little I'm a little dude in a room I'm not I'm not ready to go up against any defense contractor goons or legal threats I'll tell you that but the truth must come no um it it's super interesting man and it's one of those things that is so endlessly seductive but frustrating because it's it's Mercurial territory it's right at the edge it's beyond the edge of human understanding clearly um and it just leads you down this like fun house Hall of Mirrors where pretty soon you're in some pretty far-flung territory uh but I certainly can't help but pay attention and I'm GNA be I'm gonna be staying tuned for and and I do wonder if there's ever going to be future testimonies again um have you heard anything about well I mean right after about a week after they had a they had Arrow testify John kazlowski who's the new head of Arrow who replaced Sean Kirkpatrick um they basically had a senate hearing with senator gilbran from New York and like two other senators and nothing it was a big nothing Burger it's typical Arrow Behavior Uh they explained away the goast video to being a balloon with Parallax effect uh they explained away the agadia video which is The The Uso this sort of craft leaving an exting they said that's also a balloon I don't I don't know of any balloon that goes in and out of water but cool um so you know it was a lot of that um but I do think the next time we have a hearing I think I speak for everyone especially Congress uh when I say we need a firsthand witness we need someone who's touched the material and we need to be able to protect them I think that's the most important thing right now and I think that's why we're not getting whistleblowers I don't think they feel safe and for great reason you know I I don't think it is safe for them to come out right now I don't think anything is being put into place to protect these people enough you know if these people Harbor this type of information that is Paradigm shifting on a world scale enough reason to take someone out of the equation you know uh for sure so definitely you know I hope I hope I live to see the day where a firsthand whistleblower other than Bob Lazar right you know comes out of the woodware because I still believe Bob but that's close to my heart yeah I was going to bring him up at some point in the conversation but I wonder I wonder how we get around that maybe it's a safety and numbers type thing maybe we need like a dozen people at the same time to come forward or so many that it's just impossible to silence all of them or very difficult at least to silence all of them but I was just going to say it's it's usually the second person who's more Brave right like once we have a whistleblower it's it's it's like uh it's like when you see a dancing experiment and somebody's dancing and he's trying to get other people to dance but it's a second person that starts dancing who's like actually more Brave than the first person absolutely he's like hey I'm gonna follow this crazy yeah absolutely yeah human psychology is just you can extrapolate that example right there across human psychology in so many ways um what I was going to ask though is do you have any sense or even just fun conspiracy theories in terms of you know again people have mixed feelings on Lou alzando anytime I even mention him there's like this weird Kur fuffle in the comments about you know people's opinions on him I'll be straight up I find him to be pretty convincing I it feels like he's doing it for the right reasons but I guess if you were a professional at that you'd be good at projecting that sort of a Vibe but but anyway you know he always alludes to their being these multiple forces within the Pentagon multiple forces within the government some that want disclosure some that don't do you have any sense of who the ones that don't want it are or do you think they're completely unknown groups or groups within groups or what have you heard or what do you think yeah I first of all I think uh I think anyone talking with such Authority needs to be scrutinized yeah um you know so that being said I've read Lou's book I've looked into him I've spoken to him he's a standup guy but he's also someone who was hired for Counter Intelligence right you know so I wouldn't put it past him to be sort of playing a role uh and I think you know that isn't a secret you know it's not something I'd hide from him if if you know if I if I spoke to him about it I'd be like yeah like obviously people are going to have their doubts especially with that type of background um you know that being said I can't say whether what he says is true or not or whether he's you know this funnel for information I have no idea I can only speculate um but what I can also speculate on I think the way that things are happening is that there is a labyrinth there is a center to this Labyrinth right and I think everyone's trying to get to that Center people like Lou included people like Hal put off you know so many people are trying to get to that Center very very few people are at that Center the one thing that kind of sticks out to me is the people who don't know want to know and the people who do know don't want anyone else to know right so mathematically I look at that and I'm like well that must mean I can I can assume that whatever the truth is might be terrible yeah I mean if you're somebody who wants to know and you end up knowing and then instantly don't want anyone else to know right what does that say right it it says something possibly terrifying you know so whatever whatever that is that they don't want people knowing and these are you have to imagine these are very intelligent people these are people who are you know potentially at the highest level of intelligence uh the United States has to offer you know chosen from you know Mena programs and and Ivy League schools to work in intelligence to assess problems and find Solutions and if these people deem it dangerous unnecessary uh or otherwise you know scary to to tell the public of what the actual truth is then you have to question you have to be like dang you're right what are we talking about here what's I can't even imagine a scenario that's too scary to tell the public I was just going to ask you what do you think some of the scariest possibilities are I mean one of them obviously is some kind of supernal thing that whatever these are they're malevolent or they're malicious or they're so far beyond our capabilities to deal with that we're completely at their mercy and we just have to hope that they don't decide to do whatever it is that they could do to us I guess that could also just be true with super advanced technology they don't even have to be yeah Supernatural for that but obviously there's that other you know there's that other thing there's there's a whole bledo angle to it right there's the spiritual phenomenon angle in both its benevolent and terrifying twists um and by the way I saw that Chris bledo was in the building during the during the hearing there are pictures posted of him there and and immediately I'm like why is he there like what I mean is he just there because he's he was yeah go he was there he was there with someone from NASA I believe I think that's what I I met some person that he was with and I think I think she was from NASA uh but I said hi to him it was good to see him you know he's such he's such a loving guy um and I think I think I like seeing him there because I I do feel like there are two facets to this UAP you know conundra and and both sides are opposing yeah and for both of those sides to be in the same room I thought was really interesting yeah so i' I've had Ryan on the show since you and I spoke last he's got his POV um and I wonder now as someone who has without putting you in a sticky situation of like you know him him being a homie and you know you being friends with that family how do you negotiate that line between this being a technological or extraterrestrial phenomenon and and a spiritual one do you leave room for both do you lean toward one or the other do you think it's multiple things going on yeah uh great question and you know this is something I've talked to Ryan with at length as well and uh he knows how I feel about this I will forever I didn't have the experience his father had right right and so really strange to ask someone to to do you know to to follow a certain you know uh order a certain you Dogma for lack of a better term without having that experience you know and I think Ryan's smart enough to understand that uh through our conversations I've I've understood that he understands my perspective of being someone who is still skeptical right um but I reserve a portion of my skepticism to both sides equally as much as I also reserve room for spirituality I think it's important to not rule out the spiritual yeah and I think we've made that mistake too many times in the last several hundred years um you know and it it's nothing good comes from separating science and and and spirituality too much right I think there's stuff to learn on both sides for both parties and and that's kind of The Balancing Act that I'm trying to you know pursue there are days where I find myself meditating more and through those meditations I somehow gain Clarity on certain subjects that I was asking about or I'll have a sighting or I'll have a some type of experience but then there are days when I'm not meditating and I'm more nuts and bolts and I'm more getting and then I'll end up talking to people who were worked you know on uh certain things and they'll tell me certain things and and so there are these two worlds that exist I think for now at least I have to accept them both as being a reality and and for me why is that impossible yeah why is it impossible that we might have 300 different nhi living here like we don't know right there's there's so many variables to this uh it would be foolish of me to not consider you know one and then consider all the others well resisting the urge to Pivot into Consciousness completely because now you've brought up meditation and its role in sort of engendering or inspiring knowledge of things that you just didn't have access to before or changing your perspective on things that you were thinking about to be completely different I'm going to I'm going to couch that for now and um before we change subjects have you have you talked about what you saw with Ryan on your channel yet um not yet okay but I'm I'm comfortable talking about it okay cool cool yeah so so you spent time with Ryan and you he talked a little bit about your guys' experience on my show when when he came on um what was that like did you come away from that ambivalent were you were you like that absolutely holy that was something unexplainable um yeah what I guess tell the and I guess we should maybe do like a you don't have to tell the whole story by any means but or I'll just kind of set the stage we haven't really said who the blos are if you're not familiar nutshell it to an enormous degree Chris bled bledo as the father of this family he started experiencing paranormal phenomenon adjacent to UFO phenomenon but in a way where he's completely convinced this is a spiritual phenomenon this is not a technological phenomenon this is not an extraterrestrial phenomenon this is a these are non-material beings from some other plane of reality or from a higher plane of reality um they call them Angelic uh that said there are there are some fairly dark encounters that they've had that don't sound particular L Angelic and I do want to next time I talk to them I want I want uh I want to hear their take on how they rationalize those scarier encounters they've had but they are certain that this phenomenon is spiritual so that's sort of the the angle that they're coming at this from and you've spent time with Chris bso's son Ryan blo who has also experienced this phenomenon hundreds of times in in various ways uh and you did see something with Ryan yeah um so I actually spent time with Chris bledo as well I got to spend um an entire day with him I filmed some stuff with him which will be coming out eventually um him and his wife and uh and some other people were there as well um so the next night that night we didn't actually get to go see orbs and this is something that uh the bledo talk a lot about are these orbs right and these these Illuminating bodies of or these you know roing spheres of light that sort of appear sometimes close sometimes far and it's sort of uh a right of passage when you meet Chris bledo that he takes you out and and uh goes skywatching that night was cloudy so we just ended up chatting till like 4 in the morning which was a delight and uh you know so great and the next morning as well had coffee and breakfast it was amazing we hit the road and uh that night Ryan and I are at Ryan's place and he goes hey let's go skywatching it's a clear night it happened to be like the Harvest Moon as well and uh he's you know right by the ocean so he's like let's go down to the beach we go down to the beach maybe 10 of us and as soon as we get there you know we start looking up and you know we're starting to see activity in the sky now I say activity in the sky I reserve my skepticism still for this stuff uh because you know satellites are a thing right you know um where sometimes we'd look at something and say look an orb I would think well that seems to me as a satellite it's not changing directions it's not accelerating it's pretty steady moving across the sky um you know other people who are more in line with the theory of these being spiritual will call these things orbs but I also you know have to remind them that just Elon Musk alone has 6,400 of these satellites in space right just Elon so there is a lot of activity up there way more than there was before you know and and that makes sky watching fun because you get to see some of this activity whether Supernatural or not um you know as a as a small you know side example when I was at Monroe with Ryan we had saw we'd seen a really bright object traversing very fast across the sky and I filmed it and I was like that's amazing and everybody's like wow what a what an awesome event we're all feeling so great about it com back home I put it on Reddit I'm like hey can somebody you know help me with this and turns out it was actually a Chinese rocket that was due to it was re-entering the atmosphere was due to come back to earth the next day so we had seen an amazing event and I loved that because something told me that wasn't a satellite something told me that that was anomalous yeah and and and couldn't be so easily identified so if anyone told me that's a satellite I'd be like no it isn't cuz I saw it I filmed it it's not a satellite and somebody told me oh it's a plane no it's not a plane either you know so I was happy that I had that sort of proven to me that oh my eye is good and I can trust it so now we're at the beach we're seeing these things now I will say that sometimes these whatever you want to call them will almost pulsate randomly or Flash like a camera um and you know those behaviors I can't discount I can't say that they're um necessarily extraterrestrial because it could be some type of reflection due to the sun and the metal on possibly a satellite I don't know I'm just not well equipped enough to make an assumption on that so I watch them in awe in amazement people Point them out I point them out this is amazing things are happening we are seeing flashes I am documenting this I'm Vlogging this I'm like yeah there's like flashes in the sky it's pretty insane as I'm documenting this you start hearing people go what is that what is that what is that and you see my face flush of color just and I go oh my God and I turn my gimbal around it's like a slow Gimbal and you catch the tail end of it what I was looking at over the ocean were maybe eight to a dozen lights orange glowing orbs in a row over the ocean that just materialized they weren't steadily falling they were they were just appeared and we're all freaking out what the hell is that like I I was shaking that's how scary that was it was uh Ryan has a great way of putting it he said it was eldrid was the feeling uh you know you got seeing it's like seeing a dragon right oh yeah you're like who like you don't know what to make of that yeah during that time this couple comes running down from the beach who ended up calling the Coast Guard uh you know he thought it was Flair he's like oh is Flair somebody's out there uh they must be in trouble you know to which I'm like okay first of all who shoots up a row of nine flares what kind of flare gun is that first of all that's an insane flare gun right but I see where this guy's coming from they're orange they're bright they're over the ocean and so we're all there discussing talking about this and then a little bit later they're about to leave she starts opening up about an abduction her father had on that Beach uh that very Beach these three orbs came overhead a wild story I caught that on camera and then as they're about to leave I go look and I point my camera at it and all of a sudden this really bright orb just materializes over the ocean it's orange it's there for about five seconds and then goes away and we all just and I I filmed that it was an amazing experience yeah you know you know so as much as my healthy skepticism about the orb thing exists uh about them being satellites or not satellites or orbs or whatnot you know for me they're too far like I If if it was like beneath low orbit I would have you know Ryan has had apparently many sightings of that nature where they were like tree level or you know a ground level and I mean that must be incredible so like I'm seeing these things they look like satellites but when I saw what I saw and what everybody on that beach saw I can't explain it away so easily I'll say that and for me that was a profound sighting that I experienced with people I genuinely love and care about who are around me uh Ryan and his friends they were all just the energy was so amazing and electric um you know and to share time with them it's it's just fun to be around them regardless of all the UAP stuff and you know we chat we chatted for hours after that about that experience so for me it was a very magical experience it was definitely an experience I I it was anomalous to me you know if somebody else is it you know is it someone out there dropping flares from a plane or is it you know I don't know but what I saw was pretty insane yeah it's funny you say that because I was bringing it up um when I was at Monroe and weirdly enough dude there happened to be a guy who is a NORAD analyst in our group um so yeah he's a Canadian guy um works out of Colorado Springs but he he told I probably shouldn't say I don't he didn't tell me anything obviously that he shouldn't tell me um but he's like yeah I have absolutely nothing to do with that stuff whatsoever I I'm interested in it but I have a specific you know um threat that I Monitor and that's it like a specific country that I Monitor and that's the only thing I do um but yeah he brought that up as a possibility he's like what how do you know it's not this how do you know it's not somebody dropping flares out of a plane it's like yeah I guess but so they just have a guy on standby who's like waiting to like take off in a plane and drop flares every time they go out and Skywatch that sounds that sounds pretty farfetched to me yeah it definitely wasn't definitely wasn't Ryan's doing uh but you know maybe there's a training exercise happening there I'm not going to rule that out I'm not going to quickly say it was aliens uh but what I saw made my heartbeat very fast you know and that I I think is an experience I'll never forget yeah I'm looking so he he said dude come out when the weather gets warmer again let's do it like and I'm I'm totally game and I can't wait to do it um and that might be a good point to Pivot because I really never have seen anything in the sky that has truly made me stop and go that is a UFO or that is something I really like I'm searching my mind for things that that could be and I'm just coming up blank until those two videos that I just sent to you earlier today and funny enough they occurred within about 10 minutes of me getting to Monroe Institute I'm standing out by so for those that haven't been there and we'll get into more about Monroe Institute if you're like what Monroe Institute what are you even talking about um so you know it's it's they on a bunch of land this is in the the hilly sort of rural part of Virginia outside of Charlottesville like 45 minutes um I'm standing under underneath you know this this Big Sky there's a and I'll I'll post these videos as I'm talking here there's a there's a line of Hills or mountains whatever you want to call them and me and this other woman who just arrived are looking up at the sky we're talking you know the wooy conversation's already happening um you know she's telling me all about stuff she's into I'm telling her stuff that I'm into um and then the third guy shows up who's actually I don't think he'd mind me saying the most skeptical group of our whole bunch he's a PhD candidate at uh University of Chicago who's studying intuition for his um PhD thesis and that's why he's at Monroe to um you know study intuition and the way that people think about intuition and how intuition expresses itself in the culture and people's psychology and stuff so it's the three of us she and I would say on the Spectrum she's sold on many many things I'm kind of in the middle and we have the more skeptical guy you know they're all three of us together and we look up and there's this weird almost Boomerang shaped thing that I thought was a contrail at first but the more we looked at it we were like why isn't that changing shape that's not really how A tra behaves and then we start seeing like that it's it's maintaining its shape really well and then it just starts sinking and sinking and it doesn't change shape ever so then I pull my phone out and I zoom in and I try to get some video and it turned out decent like you can see it pretty well yeah I have no idea what that thing is by the way yeah like I I don't even know how to start explaining what that is yeah and then and then she and as we're looking at that she goes what is that and I'm like oh so P the same time yeah like right like in conjunction with one another um and then there's another light that doesn't seem to be like on the camera sort of looks like it's blinking but to my naked eye it didn't really look like it was blinking it just seemed kind of like this orb emitting light uh and it and it appeared and reappeared multiple times we all we all saw it um I think her and I just saw it at first and we were telling this other guy Mark about it and then it appeared again and I was like thank God cuz I I want the skeptical guy to see this and we all saw it 100% um and then of course I really wanted to go out and Skywatch more while we were there but the weather wasn't especially at night it was pretty cold so what was Mark's take on this he thought it was weird he's like yeah I don't know man it's like it's definitely weird yeah um and every every time we were talking about I'm like where's Mark because I want Mark to come over here and corroborate this because everyone knew could tell that he was the more skeptical guy in the group so that was interesting and that did set an interesting tone for the whole week um and yeah man it's so hard to communicate what these Monroe experiences and these Retreats are like because each one is different each one is an absolute like an alchemy that you could never reproduce again because of just whatever's going on in the collective group of people who the collective group of people are uh whatever each of those people is experiencing Within These meditations who the instructors are it's just one of those things that like I told you before started recording toward the second half of it I'm like this is never going to happen to me again like I could come back here again I could do future Retreats but this right here will never ever ever happen again and yeah that's true of every day but this felt especially just like this glistening collection of very novel days that are I can I'm literally one day that's true apart from these this experience and it's already feeling mythological you know it's already feeling so the only other time I felt like this really is coming back from I did this I retreat in Peru in 2019 and coming back to you know reality after being I don't know in Hogwarts or whatever you want to call it is it's always weird but this one was especially weird dude and what was it like what was it like for you coming back where did you have a weird period of time where you felt uncalibrated we're readjusting or oh definitely weeks like three weeks at least of recalibrating you know they give you you probably got this in a small brochure at the end of it but they give you a uh basically a few sheets on how to ground afterwards and it's you know it's saying you know go have sex go swim eat good food you know run in the grass Barefoot like Stand in the Rain they'll give you all these like grounding tips and and the one thing that was um that was told to us which was do not under any circumstances make any life decisions for the next three weeks um they're like you're not thinking clearly your head's in the clouds literally uh so you know wait for that and you know because you for me it it shifted my entire um perspective on everything and when that that foundational perspective gets shifted everything else that's stacked on top of it is suddenly wobbly and and is it in the right place or you know so naturally you want to reorganize your entire life you know and that's where they're like just chill meditate eat good food you know and so yeah there's definitely was that recalibration uh that I feared at one point that I was never going to recover from yeah did you have withdrawal from the wakeup cuz I really enjoyed the wake up honestly I really liked every morning um so so you're so I'll flash an image up here again but so you do all your meditate what I guess I need to give the high level of what the Monroe Institute is sure just because I feel like I know a lot of people are following this they know I went they know Chris went some people inevitably aren't going to know so there's this just one-of-a-kind place called the Monroe Institute founded by this guy Bob Monroe who he wrote this bestselling book called Journeys out of the body um he started having spontaneous outof body experiences had no idea what was happening to him was freaked out by it you know um initially thought he had medical problems or psychological problems or whatever uh and then realize no this is a phenomenon that really seems to be happening to me I'm going to investigate it I'm going to capture it and I really enjoy that book because it almost feels like a non-dogmatic journalist who has No Agenda really he's just reporting these incredibly anomalous out there States Of Consciousness yeah where to him it truly feels like I'm in I know he didn't like the word astral but I I like I like the word so I'm going to use it I'm just out in the astral I'm experiencing contact with other beings I'm maybe going to other worlds or other dimensions um I'm experiencing Realms of spiritual Bliss and a weird area that I call like the lower astral sex pile and just like all these different like you know parts of reality that really seem to be there if you know how to tune into them so fast forwarding immensely he eventually uh creates this place called the Monroe Institute where you can go do retreats to start exploring your Consciousness and maybe maybe maybe have an outof body experience yourself and really kind of put the nail in the coffin I mean it's a f that's a funny way to put it because it's like nail in the coffin of the idea that you aren't more than your physical body because that's the sort of Mantra of this place you you you say that every time you go into a meditation you do this little affirmation that starts with I'm more than my physical body um and yeah so I'm already thinking to the sort of Crescendo of my experience but we'll we'll work our we we'll work our our way there um because I think it's important to zoom in on what it's really about because it's not about just the peak experience I mean speaking from my perspective it was really about sort of reclaiming one of the most fundamental parts of my well it is the most fundamental part of my humanity and that's my Consciousness you know our our Consciousness in so much of our day is not ours we're just bombarded by stuff by signals by things we have to do by uh what other people want to show us you know whatever that we I really think lose touch with our own mind and our own mind's sovereignty and we never almost never enter into these deep States Of Consciousness deep into the darkness and see the potential of what's there because the potential of what's there is just Limitless it's incredible it even blew me away as someone who has you know gone to heroic dose level multiple times and this was the first time in my life I've ever meditated this much it's the first time in my life I've ever had really really profound Consciousness experiences without psychoactive molecules and before I went I was really like almost a little bit worried like what if it's what if it's just kind of disappointing like what if it just doesn't you know take me to anywhere really deep and unexpected and I will say it's much more gradual it's much more subtle overall but as a collective it was profound it was deep it was heart openening it did exceed my expectations um and yeah I mean it's it's I'm truly going to treasure that experience for the rest of my life and I'm already missing a lot of elements of it the structure you know like the first day after you're just like all right there's no meditations to do I'm not you know I'm back on my weird open-ended time schedule that I'm sure you're kind of on to unless unless you're really organized with your time I'm definitely not um yeah like you know you every morning we had a wake like a wake up Bob would come just pipe into your what's called your check unit did I say this already that you sleep and do all your meditations and what's called a check unit mhm it's just this little bed it's there's a wall on three sides and then there's a blackout curtain on the other side and at like I think it was 6:30 every morning the the morning wakeup routine would start and it would be like Cable cable car yeah dude cable car is legendary cable car is absolutely legendary 50/50 man I hated it yeah yeah I mean it's such a wonky song it kept reminding me of DuckTales you know like a weirder duck tals or something like like duck tals on a on a like one tab of exactly exactly um but yeah you know he's like he says good morning and it is a good morning for you because you're alive and you know goes through this whole affirmation thing like today's going to be a wonderful day you're gonna you're going to easily do everything you want to do you're going to be healthy you're going to be full of energy you're going to overcome all your obstacles and it's just like hell yeah like it's I like um but yeah then this weird song called cable car starts I'll see if I think it actually is online somewhere so I think you find it on Soundcloud at one point and it's weird because uh Bob's not a musician he's an he's a sound engineer and this song sounds exactly like someone who's a sound engineer uh would make a song it sounds exactly like what you're thinking right now like somebody who's very you know engineering mind makes music that's what it sounds like it it does pretty much sound like a CA like a cable car though like it pretty it just pretty much does but but anyway yeah cable car for anybody that's been there um and hopefully I can put a clip here but it is noic yeah so so I'm definitely dealing with that the withdrawal of doing so much meditation being in such a tightened community of people um one one thing I think is probably a lot different about my experience is I know you were in the Creator group but my group had 26 people from like all different walks of life so I mean you know lawyers firefighters doctors uh you know just you know me this PhD student this woman who's a an author a pro golfer just like all just a huge huge array of people um but and as cliche as it sounds you really and this is going to sound so cliche but right when I got there you know right before we saw the weird in the sky I said to Mark and this girl Tanya I was standing with I'm like this this feels like lost this feels like the TV show Lost because it's such a weird group of people and we're all here for such a weird singular novel thing that it's just like this it's beautiful it feels like almost like a weird plane crash happened and we're all just here for some reason and then you know did you do the thing at the end where you're passing around the globe and you're all talking about your experience this is going to sound so lame but I said I think this is more like found or something like that than than lost you know and everybody was like oh it's one of those cheesy things that hit in the moment um that's awesome yeah and it really was man it really was just a beautiful just I've already said the phrase heart opening but that's really what it was and Penny who um was one of our instructors who's Bob Monroe's daughter daughter by the way um she kept calling it the Gratitude Gateway like you're like the Gratitude Gateway because there's just so much love in that group of people yeah there's something hard to uh hard to put into words about being among a group of strangers yet never feeling so vulnerable and open and able to share the deepest parts of you like it it's just this ju position you would normally only Reserve that type of uh outflow of information to a family member someone close to you let alone complete strangers from all walks of life so there is something conducive I think to the experience knowing that these are strangers but the one thing that brings us all together is that we're all one this is one Consciousness we're all here for the same Mission you know so no matter what your physical looks like or what it's going through once you're in that check unit we all look the exact same you know y yeah and the things that are being shared by like day two or day three you know to to put color on what you said reserved things that things that would typically only be reserved for close friends or family people are talking about loved ones they've lost people are talking about you know how they've lost basically everything in their life at various points and there's a lot of Tears flowing um there's a lot of man there's some stories I'll tell you uh offline because they're too personal but just uproarious laughs as well that I can't I can't take the time to to try to reproduce for the audience right now yeah but just stuff that's like so singular that that's really one of the main things that I'm coming away from this from coming away with this from this with Jesus um is just how singular it is just I'll never experience that again and it was beautiful um but it did really change my relationship with my own mind in my own Consciousness and I really don't want to let my relationship with that part of myself slip away and I just have this feeling that as time goes on it's going to be harder and harder to keep that relationship because you're just not going to meditate five or six times a day for 45 minutes a crack it's just that's a lifestyle in and of itself um I don't recommend that by the way yeah I think I think it's good to do in short spurts like at the Monroe Institute but I think even people at Monroe would recommend against uh meditating four or five times a day for 45 minutes at a time I think it's just um you know the one thing is what's fun about the Monroe Institute and the Gateway experience specifically is everything's catered right you your laundry is done if you want it to be your meals are already done you don't have to think about anything your phone you could put it away so the entire experience is one that really allows you to want to let go you can't do that in in regular everyday life we have things to do we have things that we have to take care of in the 3D right and I think part of the adjustment period is learning to love that part of your life just as much and taking what you've learned from the experience and understanding how now you can apply th how can you apply those tools to facing everyday life in the 3D right how can I take the reball and and and and bring it into my everyday routine you know how can I how can I when during my day can I enter Focus 10 you know while being awake and I think it's a really cool thing to start applying once you get back and for me that was really encouraging and that was one of the things that really helped me uh stabilize that wave uh rather than fight against it and want to keep you know meditating because that it's an amazing feeling that you want to keep forever but you do have to realize that life goes on yeah yeah and just to Define reball and focus 10 for people one of the parts so you slowly build this whole sort of imaginal Mantra or ritual that you do before every meditation so like you know there's the energy conversion box there's the reball there's the intonating the the sounds tuning and did you first okay let me let me let me do what I said I would do I'll Define these things so reball is a resonant energy balloon it's essentially you're imagining this this Aura of energy around you Taurus that's yeah toroidal coming off of you but also the spiral that goes up or you can do one or the other I like to do both um so so you do that exercise um and also so Focus 10 this is the first Focus level that you do in these meditations and they describe it as the Mind awake body asleep State and that's really what it feels like it really feels like you're I don't know it's it's almost like youve you just have this snorkel into the mind or something this snorkel of awareness into the mind and the body just becomes profoundly calm and for anybody listening that can't Envision what that's like it really feels to me like about 15 minutes of sitting meditation almost instantaneously and what tipped me off to that is like there's a meditation I'll do pretty regularly and when I get to a really calm still place with it I I always notice these like swirly Mind's Eye visuals start to show up like mandalas and it's almost like a mandala but it's it's it's more like a um a geometric shape an out it's almost like outline like a like like pretend yeah like let's say it is a mandala but it's almost just like this light this shifting light of yellow to purple hued energy just going in the mind's eye and I started to notice myself almost instantaneously go there with Focus 10 um so it so it's many different things so one of them for sure is I think it it hacks some of these states of Consciousness I think there's like some hypnosis like stuff going on so that your brain is building this um map of how to go immediately to different states and that's one of these things these Focus levels give youment yeah an ENT yeah exactly an entrainment so that as soon as you hear these different frequencies associated with these different Focus levels it's like muscle memory almost it's like correct psychological or Consciousness muscle memory if that makes sense it's it's actual it's actual uh brainwave memory MH and so uh you know the way that uh binaural beats function and he's the father of binaural beats if you're ever wondering you know uh Bob Monroe came up with the whole hemisync right things which is what you're listening to you know during this experience and what's happening is essentially uh you the lower frequencies which induce sort of uh you know the Theta States and the lower um States Of Consciousness whether that's being in the zone being hypnotized sleeping you know these type of States those frequencies you can't hear you can't hear anything under 30 Hertz right uh and so to train your brain for that they have to play 100 htz here and 110 Hertz here for your brain to synthesize that 10 htz difference right and that starts to train your brain waves to follow a certain way so it is entrainment yeah as soon as you hear these very subtle frequencies you're now because you're in this relaxed State very uh quickly able to enter those Altered States Of Consciousness and they even had a monk go there who was like 90 years old who was kind of upset and he was like what are you guys doing and they're like what do you mean he's like it took me 30 years to achieve the state that you achieve in five minutes with this hemis sync stuff like he was a little bit outraged wow that he'd put in like the hard groundwork to get to these states uh and yet through you know the series of tapes that Bob had made and and with in combination with the check unit meditating and all that you can achieve that very quickly yeah yeah and I think though the the caveat to that is it still takes work to really leave an imprint and and it's so interesting man because even though each of these Focus States it's supposed to it's supposed to be a specific thing like I said Focus 10 is mind awake body asleep 12 is expanded awareness 15 is like this void um no time space State 20 is supposed to be like this bridge between worlds but how you end up experiencing that is completely unique and you may not even have an experience that is really summarized by these titles so and plus you know whoever this this guy is is he he's coming into those experiences with Decades of experience so maybe you know his Focus 15 is like a you know if we're going on a let's use a depth metaphor maybe maybe I'm on the surface of where he goes in Focus 15 and he's like 100 feet below sea level you know it could be something like that uh but yeah trying to it's so difficult to try to communicate these subtle States Of Consciousness because it's not innately visual for some people it might be for me it's not it's like a there is something psychedelic about it but it's not psychedelic like a big light color show it's like a more mild version of what you would experience so your imagination is definitely dialed up you do feel things in your body and a lot of um Ken athetic Sensations energy shifts um for me I started noticing in Focus 12 the the rolling start to occur already at times and also I would notice I think on the first day we did Focus 12 I couldn't feel my hands and feet they were just completely yeah just like boom like almost like your body is gone that's the first thing that goes by the way so you have uh touch is the first thing that goes during a med because these are all the states that you eliminate uh to fall asleep and so your first sense that leaves is touch uh your next sense is uh smell and taste and after that it's uh Sight and Sound and not necessarily in that order but it's somewhere around there because once you lose Sight and Sound guess what you're asleep right you're dreaming right and so it's to navigate all those uh ATT tenent those sort of like dampening of the senses to the point where you dance that line right at the end where you're about to go asleep but you're still Lucid Y and you're letting your body all the other senses completely drown you out and now you're dancing this fine line and that's why you experience what we call clicking out which is like sort of falling asleep and coming back into you know waking consciousness you you dance that line you thread that line and that's why it's uh you know these experiences are conducive to uh when you're uh coming out of deep sleep or when you're deeply meditating or you're extremely exhausted or Cardiac Arrest like these are the times where you'll find yourself leaving your body so it's really about finding that fine fine line and once you're there not to let yourself you know go off into Dreamland totally yeah and and what what I would say too is that you slowly come to this realization that as all those different senses shut down something else is slowly waking up like this mind sense is waking up your imaginal capacities are waking up and exactly to your point there's like this line between being awake and asleep that you want to be on it's like and I think um I think Joe MCM monal talked about this too is that there's this like Razor's Edge that you kind of want to be on in these in these states where trying to remote view or you're trying to go out of body that is like if you go one way or the other you're either too awake or you go you click out completely but you learn how to balance on this Edge as you go and that's where all the interesting stuff happens and we've and Mystics have known this since time immemorial like the neoplatonist damus for instance he specifically talks about like the hypnogogic state is where a lot of things start to make themselves known but it's you have to develop this skill of staying there it's it's like again it's like a muscle or a technique that you need to develop and work on I suppose that's why everybody like uh has these things happen to them and they say it's it's at the witching hour at 3: in the morning 3:30 in the morning it's not actually it doesn't actually have anything to do with the time it's just that's the state where you're the most relaxed where you're like waking up let's say but your body's still asleep that's exactly totally the right State yeah yeah and it changed my idea about sleep to some degree too because we really think of it dualistically most of the time I'm awake I'm asleep but when you get even a little bit of skill at seeing that it's this Continuum it's like the this Continuum of Consciousness that really yeah at a certain point it does click over as you know so this this phenomenon of clicking out let's explain this when I first got there I'm like it's just going to sleep what are you talking about it's the same thing but then as time went on I kind of changed my mind and and began wondering too if they've captured this in in brain waves like if you can see a difference between someone who has just gone through the natural progression into sleep versus someone who's in these states and they click out if there's any measurable difference I'm curious about that but so what clicking out is is like you're meditating you're in whatever Focus level and you just completely lose awareness for a little bit and it's like lost time and then you suddenly are just like back in the meditation and you're like oh I missed some stuff what but I think what it is it's like you it's very sudden so so that's one of the reasons I think it's different than sleep it's not just like you everyone knows what it's like to go to sleep but this is like a weird these are like these weird sudden shifts in Awareness where it's like you're aware then you're not aware you're aware then you're not aware time just like yep yep exactly just collapses you're like oh and I and a few times I came out of a clicking out State knowing that something else was just going on but then you immediately lose it like if you if you do that click out you're you're not going to remember whatever it was that's right um and then I don't know if I want to get into this yet but the peak experience that I had in the retreat involved kind of a very fast progression between deep meditation clicking out coming back into something else that I was completely unaware of and then a very culator thing happening um but one of the things I want to say before we go there is it changed my idea a little bit about what imagination is like first of all I think it's just very sad that we as adults lose touch with our imagination and we diminish our imagination and we don't work on it we don't almost none of us really use it or spend a lot of time in it because it is just such a magical singularly human capacity that has Endless Possibilities you know and it some work to to for me at least to get into states of very vivid imagination but it feels so good man it feels so good to just sink deep into your own kind of visionary Waters and be back in that place that you were really when you were a child you know like somebody somebody tearfully shared this experience in one of our debriefs about how they were very close with like imaginal friends when they were little like they had imaginary friends but everybody basically scolded them for doing it you know and kids made fun of them for doing it and it really ends up orphaning these imaginal capacities when adults encourage you not you don't don't you're weird you don't don't have imaginary friends you know like it so it kind of everything Downstream of an imaginary friend you're also shunning like anything that you don't know where it's coming from anything that you think is weird anything that you're not um able to reduce back down into a worldly origin is kind of just like shut off and that's that's so sad um but I also think of it as like you become very aware or at least you can become very aware in these states of what is imaginal like what's origin point is imaginal and what's origin point is like that's not me like whatever that was that came from the outside there was no kind of origin for my own imagination um did you experience that too could could you delineate between like this is my imagination this is something else yeah um I think there's a well I mean there's active imagination true also and then there's like you know this sort of passive imagination uh you know when we're in a dream I don't necessarily know what's going to happen right you know what I mean and does does that mean it's coming from an outside Source or is that coming from a deeper Source within me uh I I think it's all one and the same uh to to this is kind of how I see it is like you know if I'm in a dream here's here's the first of all is like I don't see a distinction between reality uh when it comes to dream and being awake I think they're both real I think us saying something isn't real because we're asleep I think is a weird uh statement right especially because we spend a lot of time in that realm um you know we're also the only uh the only mammals who don't wake up during sleep if somebody walks in the room which is not a great uh thing for survival by the way right um you know and uh and and we don't you know we don't need sleep if it's all energy based I could just eat and stay awake forever but that's you know there's more to it so you know for me um sleeping imagination Lucidity all these things I think are just another way to attain something that I I I don't have access to while I'm awake and I think that can come in many different forms so sometimes even if I imagine something I often wonder what compelled me to want to imagine that yeah and that might be the same thing as some external piece of information coming into my meditation yeah you know so I I I I have a hard time uh distinguishing I guess between all of that I just consider it all part of the same realm yeah yeah there there's definitely some kind of at a minimum like compatibility right because whatever if it is outside it's able to get into the inside it's similar enough that it can be in the same space and co-mingle um but I I came I was really resisting using my imagination too much because I didn't want to invent things that they were asking me to invent like I really was trying to make contact with outer like so so a lot of people there wanted to have an OB like they've been reading Bob and Rose books for years they wanted to experience an OB I thought that would be cool but that was not my primary hope like I really you know I'm super into platonism and Western esoterism and all this stuff and one of the primary goals especially in the western esoteric tradition is to make contact with what's essentially like your Soul's guide or your Soul's keeper or your higher self yeah yeah yeah so they call that like the personal Dion or personal genius or the hga holy guardan yeah whatever and I I really wanted to have a unmistakable encounter with that thing like something that I would be sure like okay this is real I'm in dialogue with it that was my sort of really out there goal I feel like I may have had subtle communication with that but it was not an an indisputable contact made I did it you know um so I was reluct to use my imagination but what I what I came to find out as the week went is imagination is like the appendage that you reach out with in these non-physical States It's like because that's all you have is you need to start a sequence of thoughts or you need to start doing something imagin and that will start knocking over dominoes that you're like wait where does this go where does this go and then suddenly you'll find yourself in weird territory and I think it isn't I'm glad you said Act of imagination because from a yian perspective right like he would do these active imagination exercises and for most people that do that they're comfortable saying this is all in my psyche but if you're viewing it as like I'm sort of leaving the firmament of what I know to be normal in my own mind and I'm reaching out with the sort of scaffolding of imagination to see what else comes and communes with that it really feels like that too like I think that's a valid way of considering what's going on and framing the kind of stuff that's going on yeah kind of an open invite yeah um so obviously your whole series was kind of you you kind of framed most of it as a journey toward trying to achieve an OB but I'm wondering if there were more subtle things or more kind of visionary things that really stuck with you from that experience too yeah definitely prior to my out-of- body experiences so during Monroe I didn't have uh an outof body experience I had many personal uh experiences that were very inward facing um you know at one point I had an emotional release and I don't know why I don't know all I felt was I think it was Focus 21 it might have been Focus 15 but I felt the smile on my face growing like I I literally felt it growing on my face I didn't I wasn't actively trying to smile but I felt my lips doing this and I was like and I was thinking to myself why are my lips doing this and all of a sudden I came over I just this wave of intense gratitude yeah um brought me to tears in the middle of a meditation I just I just started I started being teary eyed and I started smiling and I had no you know sometimes if you're nostalgic or you're thinking on a fond memory or something that can bring tears to your eyes and bring emotions I had none of that it was spontaneous out of nowhere I felt in insane yeah and uh then I realized there I I was just connecting with something deeper within me and I I it was just like you know letting go of like the pressure valve a little bit and kind of like wow like this eternal this this gratitude is filling me right now this gratitude that I can only speak about normally is now manifesting itself and I feel it without saying it without saying I'm grateful my body is showing me is is telling me how grateful I I am right now and and that was just such a profound experience I did not expect right you know and aside from that I did have a few moments where I thought like you that I was in communication with something but didn't let myself really believe it because it was a little too nebulous for me to uh really say oh my God I Heard a Voice it was I heard something say you are and repeat this and it was like this booming voice but then I was again you know in this state of am I sleeping did I just imagine that or was that you know so it wasn't clear I didn't get that Clarity I wanted but I still think you know again it's all it's all about your perception of these events that really matter and one thing I talked I talked to my friend the other day about you know sort of the reality and dreams and something really interesting is that you know to prove something in this reality you know I don't I don't need to I don't need to grab you and say hey look these people are real you know I don't need to do that in this reality we just I just assume that everybody's on the same page and living the same reality as I am and and and therefore I don't have to like drag you around to to prove to you that things are real well when I'm in a dream I also don't feel the need to grab somebody outside of my dream and be like look it's a it's it's it's a dream no I just assume everybody in my dream in this reality is all on the same page as I am and that doesn't stop me from living that reality it you know knowing it's a dream doesn't make me go a it's just a dream no it's real to me I'm in this reality right so again I I just feel like there is a a sense of realness to these stat of whatever you want to call them but I I do feel that they're real and I do feel that they're meaningful I just don't think they're always physical yeah yeah totally there's a there's a phrase um that I believe it was coined by this philosopher HRI Corban and um Yung would use it a lot too and it's like the Mundus imaginalis it's like the world of the imaginal and it's trying to communicate this idea that the world of the imaginal may be seemingly separate from the physical world but it is a world and it is real in its own way and there is a language and there is phenomena going there that's just as important as the physical and if you completely cut yourself off from that you're going to notice that something is deeply missing from your life but the good news is is that if you make time for it and you try to reach out to that thing consistently you will gradually feel more and more at home in your own mind more more at home in your own skin and that's that's really what I thought my biggest takea away from this week was going to be until I had my Peak experience on Thursday I I was like I have such a better relationship with my mind I have such a better relationship with Darkness like I so my big release I had the same thing happen like I had this pocket of like I don't know heart chakra energy or uh you know theam Mania in the Greek like divine Madness in a good way where I was just completely overcome with gratitude and started balling as well I had this crazy realization about Darkness itself where it's just like this this feeling of why are you afraid of me like this is I'm I'm you like the darkness is you the darkness is God you're connected like this part of you that's the part that's the most ancient of all before any ideas before anything there was a probably a great Continuum of conscious awareness absent of color you know and that something about that visceral realization just like really hit me and made me just like break down that connection to the ancient is something I felt as well and I felt that when I started uh vibrating when my body started like humming this electrical Buzz I felt that as well I was literally the only way I could describe it the feeling that I had was whatever's happening to me has been happening for thousands of years like this is ancient right now that I'm experiencing this is what ties me to all the people you know that have come before me for the thousands and thousands of years on this planet like that's what ties me is this event right now we're all connected through this Y and I just had that feeling I didn't know really how to describe it but yeah when you said that you know this ancient this is who you are it's it's primordial it's like it's before time it's like this whole yeah yeah it's a very exciting uh and releasing feeling to understand that like hey there's more to this than just what we what's out here you know yeah and speaking of there being more to this you know like I said a lot of people there were trying to prove that fact to themselves through having an actual outof body experience and I should say that I kind of wasn't sure if that was really a thing you know I wasn't sure if speaking of imaginal I wasn't sure if that was like really vividly going somewhere in your mind and feeling like wow I'm there I'm I'm seeing this very clearly but I became sure I was dude it's straight up leaving your body it is can we say that now straight up leaving your body know that's what it is it's insane so I will say I am the most shocked person of anyone that I had an OB because I didn't expect it I was not the A+ student who during every debrief I was like I went on this crazy imaginal journey and I connected with my guides and I did this and I did that there were people blowing me away with their experiences and they felt very archetypal and like you could tell they weren't making it up because they were just perplexed by things and I was like like um like one someone I wound up talking to a lot I'm sure she won't mind me saying um the woman who's a pro golfer she was she was having experiences and I won get into the specifics but the she was saying as someone who's into like and into archal imagery I could tell she was experiencing archetypal imagery Shadow material um stuff that her unconscious was trying like or or her soul or something was trying to communicate to her to go deeper and I was like oh I want to have these experiences so anyway on Thursday which is the last you know day of meditations uh and this is the of focus 21 the deepest state that you go to during the longest meditation you do in this Retreat it's this meditation called superf flow like free flow yeah yeah yeah so you're slowly working your way up to this highest Focus level that we do deepest whichever one you want to call deepest lowest I don't know and you're just taking a lot of time to get there and when you take a lot of time you tend to go into this clicking out State more for sure it's it's much harder to not click out so I believe we were probably 40 minutes into this long meditation and I'm I'm riding that Razor's Edge like it's a really it it's not eventful in terms of there being a narrative or really feeling like I'm communicating with anything but I just feel like I'm in this really really calm deep State of Consciousness a lot of kind of like mandala e shadowy almost like um uh not exactly Flower of Life type stuff going on but just just very like you can tell you're in that tunnel like you're traveling down that tunnel where it's just you're in some very very I don't know flowy energetically Rich territory but anyway so So eventually I'm I'm in about Focus 15 I think and I just suddenly feel like I wake up in a room like I'm just physically in a room and it's not like I'm imagining it it's like I'm there I'm feeling everything I'm seeing everything it's a real goddamn room and I'm looking out the window but as I'm looking out the window I'm like how do I get here again like what where am I right now and then I think to myself no no I'm not here I'm in the check unit and as soon as I think that I'm back in the check unit but everything feels extremely aew and out of phase is the best way I can put it do do you have a sort of buzzing energy like is there like a yes there's like a palpable like almost electric euphoric like buzzing yes but the one thing I didn't have that almost everybody says they have is like the the loud ringing in the ears I don't whooshing sound I don't remember that I I may have had it but it just doesn't stand out to me uh and then as I start trying to move I feel my non-physical self start to just Elevate and it literally is just going up in the air going up in the air and it's a like like Chris just said it's a it's a noticeable feeling of energy of charge of almost but also kind of almost liquidy like liquidy being like Disturbed or vibrated kind of feeling vibrating at a high frequency like yeah yeah and it and a noticeable feeling of an upward lift like like it almost feels just like there's this I mean magic magic carpet is a dumb way to put it but just like almost like there's just this part of you that's underneath you or something and I start to freak out like it it's a very strange feeling like it feels like everything in you is like this is not this is wrong at least for me it felt wrong like I shouldn't be in this state and I start trying to move my non-physical body and it's like a bag of heavy water or something it just it doesn't feel like I can control it well at all so I start to freak out but I'm also like no wait turn around try to look at yourself try to look at your physical phical body so you can experience that thing and I couldn't quite make that happen like it felt like I was just like slow motion turning and then I just start again the fear sort of takes over and I just start thinking help help help and eventually I I start saying help help help and as I'm saying that I just start slowly sinking back down into my body and then I pop up and I'm just like oh my God oh my God that happened that just happened and immediately I'm in this belief but also we have to communicate this to people it is so real it is not it does not feel like you're in a dream no it feels as real as this right now the perspective change that you achieve of being up in the air feels just as real as this right now yes it doesn't look psychedelic like I really thought maybe I'd be seeing all this crazy psychedelic sort of visual stuff that's not what it looked like it just looked normal granted I am in a dark box basically so I'm not very but all I tell you is it absolutely happened I'm as certain as I can be that it happened and I got up and it it felt like I had just narrowly escaped death or something like it really F like there's this charge going through me and I was like holy holy and I went you know I left the meditation I go downstairs I'm just pacing around I thought about knocking on the door of the control room where the instructors were and just being like I did this you know um but I I went right up to the door and I'm like no I'm not going to disturb them I'm just going to think about this for a while and then people you know slowly come out of the meditation and they start Milling around and they're like you okay like what what's going on so I'm like slowly just start telling people the story and yeah that's all I can say is it happened and it's it's super surreal it's just super surreal it's surreal yeah more than real uh when you went back into your body did you physically feel yourself interfacing with your physical how did that did you do you remember feeling that do you remember just uh going in I think it was kind of just like a noticeable palpable sense of like a kind of like putting your hand in water like almost like air yeah yeah because that's that's what it felt like for me as well when I went back in the second time it happened to me I went I I panicked and I wanted to get back and I panicked and I say panic because like you said it's real yeah and and and people are like well why are you afraid I'm like I'm not afraid of flying in a dream but if I'm flying in real life yeah that's scary that's something I need to be scared of right because what's happening right now so when I went through my body I actually went down lower about 2 three inches and I felt like I could go lower and that scared me even more right I wanted to get get back up into my body but I did feel like an like a yeah phasing through your physical it's the only way I can put it yeah and and so I I kind of feel like I'm a little infant in swim class or something like like you put water wings on me and I'm like just okay this is a thing now um but there's obviously people who can swim and swim really well or go diving or you know whatever and you've gotten a little bit you know more into the I don't know the the treading water phase than dog paddle phase than I have and you were able to kind of touch things and feel things and it's interesting to juxtapose all these different experiences against one another because for me I could barely control the physical body and or the non-physical body and then I'm wondering why is that like is there something that like just some connection I didn't make or is there something different about it um I think it's the psyche I think it's because I've asked these questions uh to Ary who's my trainer yeah and he said it's perfectly normal he's like when you learn to ride a bike yeah you're not riding a bike the first day or that analogy you just gave with like your you know your your your floaties that's exactly what's happening right now you are in a new world that you do not know yet how to navigate and some people are naturally just more inclined to figuring that out very quickly and some aren't but the point is is that because you're in this new realm you understand how it feels the next time you're going to go in it you're just going to be that much more experienced and your experience will evolve just a little bit more past that yeah yeah and and you know I'm I'm also curious from the other perspective have your intellectual defenses come up and been like well yeah I experienced it but I I still don't know if I'm more than my physical body maybe that was just some super Vivid dream maybe that was just some I know and we've already talked about that dreams are worth paying attention to regardless but that's the only intellectual defense I have is like maybe it was a lucid dream or maybe it was a uh some crazy Twist of Neurology or something but that feels so unsatisfactory like like if if I say that that is a Twist of Neurology I'd have to say the same thing about everything right it because it feels that real it's uh at first it feels wild and as time goes on you'll definitely notice your brain rationalizing things just so that it can cope I think that's a natural uh reflex of our organs you know for survival uh it doesn't really fall into uh any useful category to leave your body you know your brain's like yeah it's not going to help us uh but for me what strengthened it was the sub subsequent experiences that I had you know I had like half a dozen of these oh really well I had two happen back to back inadvertently like accidentally and that's what got me interested and it was coming back from Monroe that I had like another four experiences okay um three months later and it was through meditating every day I meditated for like 40 minutes to an hour every single day without missing a day and had a really strong intention started waking up uh in the middle of the night and early in the morning like 400 a.m. uh to meditate because I I would drink a glass of water which would wake me up to go to the bathroom but I wouldn't leave the bed and I would just start meditating that's when I started having these things happen so I'd kind of found my own little pocket were you meditating with hemisync or without so I would meditate with hemisync but I never had an experience during hemisync they always when I was done my meditation I take my headphones off and I was in like a relaxed buzzing State that's when I would go through the Mantra and my Mantra was and I this happened twice where I said it three times kind of like a magic spell and on the third time like I popped out uh I would just say I deeply desire to leave my body I deeply desire to leave my body I deeply desire to leave my body and on the third time I I would feel myself like jiggling so to speak within my body so like I'm oh it's loose oh I can oh and then I would get out you know um so to your to your question I think at first rationale kicks in obviously you know you're trying to make sense of it I didn't know what out of body experiences was when I had my first one so naturally I was way more skeptical I was like no that has to be and then it happened again second night I'm like okay it's weird but it still has to be a and then when I learned about it actively decided to have it happen made it happen multiple times that's where I was like I am 100% convinced at this point in my life that I'm more than my physical body beautiful that's all I know I don't know anything more I don't know about local one two and three I don't know about you know uh interdimensional beings that I can contact or have fights with or sleep with or whatever I don't know any of that yeah all I know is that I am more than my physical body and that for me was like the biggest Revelation yeah man yeah I mean it's it's probably the biggest Revelation right I mean how can yeah yeah um have you had one since the the stuff you covered on your channel I had one uh that I haven't covered which I didn't think I I really would get into because it was really brief pardon me it was um so it was a few months after and I had stopped meditating as frequently as I did mainly my intention was so strong yeah uh to have an out of- Body Experience um I meditated all the time I ate right you know I I I quit taking you know smoking recreational weed and uh drinking and anything I just stopped at all for this the intention was so strong and then once I achieved it multiple times that the strength behind that intention sort of weaned and you know as a result I would meditate less and less I still felt great I still felt that acknowledgement of this is real but I was meditating less and therefore it was happening less and then one night I I'd woken up from a lucid dream and awake and I I had that familiar buzzing and I was like oh this is it this is the realm where it happens I'm like okay I deeply desire to leave my body W just like that things are black I I demand Clarity I start seeing I leave and it was like it was like it happened for the first time deep Terror fear again CU I'm in the dark out of my body I'm like H and I fell right back in woke up so it was like a brief like two three seconds of out of body but it was just so nice it was like a almost like a nostalgic feeling of like hey like you still got this this is still here if you want it you know if you seek it it's there still um but yeah for me I I didn't really feel the need to want to explore more than that and I know that's a silly thing to say because it's so magical but I got what I wanted out of it I kind of get what you're saying because even now I'm not sure if I want to do that again it's it's it's a lot I mean it's like saying I don't know it's like I'm trying to think of a good there is no parallel but it's it's like let's say you do a you run a marathon or something like you're training and you're training and you're training and you run a marathon the day after running a marathon you're probably not thinking I can't wait to run another Marathon you're probably like ow man that was so much work and it's sort of even though I I didn't personally put that much work in it's so ontologically destabilizing that it truly makes you think about things and I almost didn't do the last meditation I every time I go to sleep at night now I'm like what if I pop out of my body tonight or what if I wake up or what if you know what if I wake up and try to go back to sleep and then I have that happen again because that's when you're playing on these borders of Consciousness just a lot of things you become acutely aware of the fact that a lot of things can happen on the blurry borders of Consciousness Adam Monroe Institute Retreat that's for sure and so it just makes me think of all these states of Consciousness in such a different way and makes and I'm just so much more aware of the possibilities so I get that but I do I do think in my heart of hearts my seeking disposition will eventually demand that I continue exploring and continue you know trying to prove certain things to myself or or just try to have more depth of understanding when it comes to my own Consciousness and what's possible and what the nature of reality is I'm just that's just such a strong motivator for me in general I have a question I have a question for you um how does this now affect some of the literature that you've consumed because now you have to look at all this literature pertaining to Consciousness with a new lens have you already noticed that a lot of these things that you you've memorized or read have you noticed them now holding a different value for yourself yes so so on that note the most recent um solo video I did I was talking about a few different um occasions and thinkers from Antiquity um like there's a so there's a platonic dialogue called the fedo that's the one where Socrates dies and before he dies he gives this really weird speech about the true nature of reality the fact that you're an immortal Soul the Earth that we see is not the true Earth he says and he and he says this whole perplexing thing about how you know reality is kind of like being a uh like a crustation at the bottom of the ocean you know that crustation might look up through the water and see the night sky in a sort of blurry rendition of itself but if one was able to gain wings and fly up and breach the surface they would see the true beauty and the true state of reality and you're like wait a minute gain wings and fly up like those are that's an actual part of what he's saying gain wings and fly up and not only does he say that but he's talking about in the context of having an immortal soul and being trapped in an ucer reality or or if not ucer only a shade a dim shade of the real reality and then I did more of a deep dive in the context of like who are a lot of these Greek philos opers inspired by and they were inspired by these these figures called the yatro Mones which which translates to healer seers and these healer seers people the most famous one is like Pythagoras but there's also like abaris the hyperborean and imp pedicles and all these different guys and they would go into caves or really dark places and they would stay there for really long periods of time and they would Soul JY and they would astral project and they would bu and then you're likeit a minute so these guys who inspired the most famous of famous philosophers were doing exactly what sounds like going out of body why maybe wouldn't the most famous philosopher of all time be talking about doing the same thing under slightly esoteric terminology you know so yeah man there it does make me reconsider that and there are certain philosophers who straight up talk about the vehicle they straight up talk about the subtle body and like how to become more aware of it and how like things to eat to cleanse it things not to eat to keep it clean like things not to do to your point you know giving things up um not drinking not having sex not eating certain like I said Foods so I think that there this stuff was known by a certain small percentage of people or they may have been talking about it under slightly cloaked terminology and you're not learn this in your philosophy 101 class but if you read it like you said with that hermeneutical lens yes it is there to be seen I think yeah I I agree I think that's beautiful I I think that now that you have you know this extra lens with which to you know consume this information I think you're just going to be that much more enriched by you know the information itself I think there's so much to learn like that's the thing is like you can like you can watch a movie yeah and then you can watch a movie movie knowing something and it's a completely different experience you know and I I think that's what this uh experience has given me is that it's a fresh perspective you know and a fresh perspective on on you know things that I thought were true you know now turn out to be completely new again and like I'm a kid yeah you know you that's the one thing I felt coming out of Monroe was that you know I've experienced um you know mind-altering substances before uh you know and you know I've had my my fun with Molly and my youth and stuff like that but one thing that those euphoric drugs give you is a sense of new yeah where even through uh psilocybin you can look at a little bug and while and go wow and Marvel at the beauty of this little bug on this leaf and just it's so amazing I found myself having those experiences completely sober now that I walk outside I try to attain this Focus 10 and all of a sudden I'm looking at leaves and thinking this is a beautiful leaf and I sound like an idiot I sound like I'm a child and that's beautiful I think it's I think having that fresh perspective on life is vital especially in a world where we are completely disenchanted yeah man by absolutely too much information and and too much you know too much rivalry and all this all this other stuff it's so vital that we experience that childlike Wonder once again and tot you know to do it through a conduit uh like the Gateway process I think is just such an amazing amazing experience I'm so happy that you not only got to experience it but but got to experience it to the fullest experience like that is you're you're so you're you're it's so perfect dud you got to do this and I'm very very very happy and delighted you're I'm so grateful dude I'm so grateful to you and and yes everything you're saying man Reawakening to the mystery in the mundane you know the the as cheesy as it sounds the felt truth that there is a universe in a grain of sand above bug is like this this fractal nebula of gleaming crystalline material that's alive and and insold at least to some degree and not intellectually being like yeah world's pretty cool but feeling it and knowing it and being connected to it yes and I couldn't agree more man that that the the deeper you go within yourself the more apparent that mystery in the mundane becomes and the more felt it becomes so yeah dude it's it's absolutely true do you see yourself going to do another Retreat there at some point yes I do absolutely I've been thinking about it recently like for me it's almost I mean I'd hate to say it but I'd love to do this twice a year yeah I think every six months would be a good little reup for my Consciousness and my you know uh my stress levels and everything else because I I've never felt less stressed in my life than when I came back from that place totally and just you know and time responsibilities start start to pile on you know you start to you start to relive a lot of the things you had before but it's like a pressure valve and um I know that I probably realistically can't go back to Monroe every six months but I'm thinking of ways to maybe do an online version of their retreat at least for a weekend MH just so I can yeah put myself back into I I'm I'm hearing you and I'm seeing the glow the aura that you're emitting right now and it's making me want to go back like it's it's yeah there's a Nostalgia I feel through your experience yeah I'm I'm feeling the same way like I would definitely love to go back at some point if we could make it happen at the same time that would be super fun let's do it um have have you tried to push anybody else to go yeah uh I think Jesse's going cool with Omar I think they're doing one in January if I'm not mistaken is that his lady or Amar no Amar is uh is from yes Theory he's 's he's in his videos yeah cool um and so they're both on you know separate but similar journeys of Consciousness and uh I kind of hyped them up to the idea and I was like you gotta you got to try it man um so I would love to get I would love for anyone to try it out but I do think there is value in having people who have an audience going and participating because I do think this needs to be shared yeah and I've never felt a more truer sense of um let's say I don't know meaning for my own personal life than to share this yeah I I really think it's a selfless act and I think it's awesome and I want people to I want as many people as possible to experience something like this because I think if everybody if I could get everybody to leave their body this world would be entirely different yeah right immediately if everybody had the experience that you had everybody on Earth simultaneously had an experience like that you can say goodbye to a lot of the negative things that are happening right now right it would fix the world I do believe that and I think that's part of their mission is to attain what is it 1% of the population in the next 9 years now um and and I want to be part of that mission I think it's a noble Mission I think more people need to experience this in order to you know um help make the world a better place as corny as that sounds but yeah and and pretty much you know at two hours on the dot you say that's like such a mic drop sort of thing um and this two hours by the way just completely just evaporated this one just felt like we hit a Flow State from the very beginning definitely um but is there anything else that's that's burning in your burning you kept have you kept your Journal oh yeah yeah yeah have you read gone back and read through it this morning I did this morning I did yeah were there things that uh surprised you at all or things that you look back at now and and uh then look at differently or well it's it is funny because I remember in the beginning just noting you know the first time I felt the sort of Sensations going through the body and feeling like that's probably about the peak of what I'm going to experience you know like I'm gonna I'm gonna I was thinking about this before when you were talking that in some weird way hemisync almost feels like you know like those uh Electro electronic things that people put on their abs to like yeah contract it's like it's like hemis is like that for your your second body or something it's like it's like sending these impulses into your being that remind that thing it's like oh yeah I'm swimming around in here I'm swimming around in here and then it's sort of starts to like you you regain some of those Sensations somehow through a combination of the suggestibility and frequency and deep State of Consciousness that you're in I I I still don't understand the Alchemy of it I still have absolutely no idea how I achieved it but obviously that's a core part of it it is like you're sending the signals to that thing and waking That Thing Up um and little did I know little did I know man that it would eventually yeah it's so beautiful how you know I look back and you you know I think about my own Journey about even approaching this topic to you know doing it myself to to to then having experiences outside of Monroe to meeting to starting my channel to meeting you talking to about it getting you onto the program and then you having an experience yeah you know it it it makes me think like man yeah this is all connected this is all it has to be connected this is a wild simulation happening right now it is and it extra makes me feel that way because I don't think I deserved that like I don't feel like out of that group of people I was the one who should have that experience or even should have had it and then I almost have to wonder like is that why I had it so that I could come on here and be like it's real it's real you know because I wouldn't be able to say that beyond a shadow of a doubt if even if someone else in my group that I trust implicitly told me I'd be like yeah he says it's real but it's not the same it's not even close to the same I agree I and I think I think you're right I think it did have to happen that way in order for you to talk about it I I just think that's how it had to happen and that's how it did happen well I mean I'm indebted to you man so oh please I don't know what I can do for you but if there's ever an opportunity to do anything for you I'mma do it I appreciate it thanks for coming back on the show brother I I really enjoy these conversations and now that we have this Bond there's like this whole extra Dimension to it so would love to do it again definitely hope to collaborate more and always looking forward to seeing what you're doing next too thank you I appreciate that I like I love what you're doing your conversations uh have become I even in my Discord they've become like a topic of conversation like your link gets shared around quite a bit now uh from a lot of the Discord members you've got a new fan in me um and especially in a lot of people in my community as well I think uh I think what you're doing is really great and you're keeping um very high level conversations alive and prevalent on the internet and that's much needed I'm trying man hopefully the YouTube algorithm will uh will continue to to support that trajectory um is there anything that you want to tell people that you're going to release soon or anything um no um I'm just I'm going to keep working on I got so many things that I'm working on right now I am actually uh reamping I I built I built another set not this one um uh and and we're about to launch it and it's a place and hopefully I'll be able to have you on one day let's do it uh because it's a physical uh podcast set and um as much as I I love doing these online I have this setup um you know that that physical interaction when you're talking to someone um just lends itself I think that extra little that extra little bit sometimes and I would love to uh have you on as a guest one day so let's talk about it in 2025 and get you up to Canada yeah I have more interesting to talk about now that's for sure absolutely all right man let's wrap this one much love and until next time thanks man