The Gateway Process, DMT Entities & the Universal Hologram | Adam Butler

introduced this crazy Declassified Gateway process report it was written in 1983 it came out of Fort me basically he was tasked to see if the Gateway process is is valid does it work it's amazing as you read this because it's so dense with you know meditation and and Kundalini energy and and how you can achieve these different levels of scientific breakdown of toroidal fields and what the the holographic um you know Matrix is the take-home from that yes works and that we can separate our Consciousness from our physical body that that body um Can transcend space and time and in one of like the bullet points it says and I've got it here it says be intellectually prepared to react to possible encounters with intelligent non-corporeal energy forms when time space boundaries are exceeded there just so much wit that's going down with aliens with DMT entities really like we really think this is happening that we really think this is what's going down and the answer is honestly and truly yes welcome back to the transmission my friends we're all aware there's more to Consciousness than the mundane you know the task oriented default mode network based cognitive postures you know more than fantasizing about getting your work done so that you can eat delicious soup hot salty delicious soup on a cold winter day a potage technically despite that something more we experience it at least the vast majority of us far too rarely I know I was in a major rut before I attended a Gateway experience retreat at the Monroe Institute in November where I did get to dip into the more magical Waters of Consciousness where a lot of things happened but the week really climaxed in my first ever outof body experience which honestly I'm still integrating 2 months later but there was so much more magic at that Retreat magic like who I synchronistically wound up being roommates with why synchronous you ask well we have a ton in common for one Adam is the author of Butler's DMT Field Guide for instance every day he was reading an esoteric book that looked right up my Wonder alley and also he was the only person of the 25 people at the retreat who actually knew who I was we riffed we resonated throughout the week I knew I needed to have him in the mind meld he's got a crazy life story he's incredibly kind he's really rebuilt his entire life around I guess I'd call it seeking but anyway this one just flowed I would say maybe it overflowed with the quintessence because there's a lot of good stuff in here more on the Gateway process both the Declassified document and the retreat itself we thoroughly Muse about the Magic in mystery that is DMT a topic and substance that Adam is very seasoned in and with that all the links for Adam Butler are in the description same for third ey drops and my friends do present L like sub comment share if you'd be so kind do check out third ey drops wherever you listen to pods we've got hundreds of Audio Only mind melds just waiting for you and speaking of waiting uh not only myself but hundreds of other sentient sacks of Stardust are waiting for you over at patreon.com third ey drops because we've got a patron only Discord server we do Zoom hang as a book club you can get rewards we would dear love to have you but presently let's meld Minds with Adam Butler we are on the other side of the Monroe portal my friend feel there to be a lot of conversations about portals of various kinds today um but yeah man surreal experience surreal to have you as a roommate and I guess surreal to be doing a mind M with you now it is that's a perfect example of the power of manifesting your intentions really yeah no I'm I'm happy to see you um you know before we started recording just saying what an experience to have not only with you and I together as roommates but the other you know 24 people that we we joined to it was um quite an amazing experience for sure yeah we'll definitely be rien on Monroe Gateway stuff so many things um one of the things we were just um musing about a bit before hitting record is and it's funny that you brought this up because I was thinking the same thing just a minute ago is that when you're talking about something as Arcane as this substance that we call DMT right the context of what it is I think greatly colors people's perception of it like the context that we have established is that this is a in just drug right which is I think one of the least useful sort of labels to put on something like cuz that I can do anything from make you unconscious to completely do the exact opposite thing right like the spectrum of things that fit under that umbrella makes the term almost completely useless and you know I was thinking about like well if in if in like Antiquity they would have come across the distilled version of this molecule how would they have thought about it you know like people like Andrew gall or he he likes to think of it like a technology um but you were positing another way of thinking about it so yeah how do you think about it and why do you think that context is important well let's let's start with probably the most common term which is The Spirit Molecule right that's from Rick Stan's novel work that he did in the 1990s where I think that encompasses quite a bit and I think that's something that's applicable today and probably would have been used back in the day as well because it does definitely connect you to some Source that's bigger than and greater than um I use in my book quite a bit the the term Miracle molecule and it was because the first few times that I I did it I just kept saying to myself like this is such a miracle like everything that came out of it it was just you know yes Spirit Molecule but also Miracle molecule and I mentioned that there's probably you know a million different adjectives that could be used to describe it uh you know we we referenced the past episode that you did where we you were discussing that it's kind of like a condensed essence of life it's an ism of something um because it is ubiquitous it is in you know a bunch of plants and throughout the animal kingdom and it's like why is this endogenous molecule and certainly I agree uh drug is is so limiting uh and almost kind of dirty and condescending where that's why I think it's important to have conversations like this where we can say no it's it's a plant-based medicine it's also endogenous you know that's a term that anybody discussing DMT is going to be familiar with meaning that it's pretty produced in your own body um you know the these are molecules that have uh hugely beneficial uh applications and I think that's that's what's finally being shown today and you know to tie it back into your you know topic that you like to talk about is antiquity and what they did to explore their Consciousness um I think DMT whether it being form of iasa or potentially Crystal form and as well as other psychedelics were certainly part of that exploration of consciousness yeah I I think there's no reason they wouldn't be like I've I've sort of my my Nuance on that my opinion and all of that has sort of transformed over time where you know in the early days of the podcast for sure most of my experience and knowledge was from profound personal experiences with psychoactive molecules so that's where my mind went immediately right like of course that's what the Ancients were doing like why wouldn't they doing that but I also think the importance of what what we were what we're already alluding to the the importance of context along with that is understated and the power of context is understated like for instance you know what what you and I even experienced at Monroe Institute I think in some ways is a testament to this like for people that don't know that aren't familiar with you know the Monroe Institute Gateway all of this stuff there's no psychoactive component whatsoever other than whatever you're carrying in your own Hardware software um on board but just that context alone and just that practice alone it's clear that so much is possible it's clear that that is an entry point into some kind of great mystery and I think the Ancients at least a certain class of the Ancients had this just unbroken lineage of understand standing that I think there's no reason it wouldn't have included plant medicines or uh psychedelic plants but I also think there's more to it than that and and I think there's this kind of I don't know synthesis that is underappreciated you know it's like people who are like either in the Psychedelic camp or they're against it um and I think it's just so much more complex and beautiful and probably embracing than than that kind of like mutually exclusive way of looking at it yeah and I think context back in the day was huge because you you didn't have the the smut that's you know clouded all of our our senses nowadays with social media mass media just I mean the the the crap just got through the election you know that there's so much stuff that a lot of people um and not me I checked out of that stuff you know a long long time ago but um you can imagine if you know once your your basic needs were taken care of of food and shelter and and you know the basic comforts you can imagine back in the day that that that was probably the thing to do which is to explore yourself and to try to understand yourself and um psychedelics for for a bunch of reasons um allow that to happen probably as importantly and I think what you were alluding to with with Monroe is the intention behind it you know so intention and context so what why are you doing it how are you doing it what's you know what's the purpose and um I know that today there's this kind of Renaissance happening where people are really using it for way more than just the party scene or the Rave scene or to go to concerts and there's nothing wrong with that I mean that's not necessarily how I like to enjoy it but um I I I read the the kind of trip reports from back in the day and it's very clear that that they're having some psychedelic experiences and if nothing else the physiology of going into a dark space of having deep meditation of trying to clear your thought that that alone is going to produce a whole flush of chemicals including DMT um and I think that's an exciting part of kind of where we're at now in this this day and age is that the the current science is is backing up what these these ancient kind of groups knew um like Joe despenser Dr Joe despenser has that book becoming Supernatural one of my my kind of top books that I got into actually before exploring psychedelics I think it does a great job of tying just how important that that mind Body Connection is is you know to have that coherence with everything flowing through your body really is super super powerful and you know maybe as I'm sure we're going to pick this all apart but you know just to start off like the big big picture of all of this is just the amount of information that can be conveyed on vibrational wavelength of energy and that's exactly what they were doing at Monroe I think that's exactly what DMT does I think that's what meditation does um I think that's what happens when you go into these Altered States is that it's just you your your antenna or your ability to receive information gets highly refined enhanced and you be you become aware that you have way way more than your initial excuse me initial five senses and uh yeah I think that's the exploration that you and I were saying that will'll continue to do for the rest of our life because we're humble enough to know that we'll never have the full answer and intellectually curious curious enough to know that there's always going to be these tangental paths to go down and like even our bullet points of things are about potentially to talk about it's like we could have added 10 more it's only going to get more crazy more profound especially with all the [ __ ] going on with aliens and ghost and you know all this crazy [ __ ] but it all it all ties together in you know in a in a weird way yeah it all ties together in Consciousness for sure like once you open the door of really understanding or really even just entertaining the idea that Consciousness is not just a thing that flowers out of a super complex dense hierarchy IED collection of brain networks or whatever it it's really does seem to be something that is latent and strewn throughout reality and it's like with all of this stuff I feel like I always need to exercise Nuance because that that is like a gateway to just allow everything it's just like a it's a ticket to dulu it's a ticket to schizophrenia if you want to take it there but um it doesn't mean it's not true to an extent and if somebody you know it's funny dude because the other thing I wanted to say too is like you brought up this idea of vibrations and that could potentially be one of the most you know overused pieces of like new age clap trap right vibrations and and me as someone who hates that [ __ ] it like it it there's part of me that's almost just like cringes at saying this but it's [ __ ] true dude and and going just like it's all love we're all one it's all but it's true and and I think that's true too I think that's trer than than most people know or understand or realize and that and that's an really interesting deep conversation in and of itself too um when you get to the archetype of you know what does that mean what is love how does that function um but but before we get there what I mean by the vibration thing is true atast least in a way is so this technology at Monroe we're getting kind of away from from uh where we were going initially and I do want to go back to this idea of DMT as potentially this like distillation of some kind of knowledge or I don't know chemical key to some kind of perception or something but on the point of vibrations when you do a sync meditation you know the the technology that they use at Monroe in the Gateway process to help you achieve certain States Of Consciousness it is vibrations like yes there's other stuff yes there's some guidance yes there's some orientation of ideas in the beginning but fundamentally what you're doing is you're just bombarding your brain with a certain brain wave or with a certain frequency and that frequency is directly to if not a state of consciousness a way to entrain your brain so that achieving that State of Consciousness is easier and it's the same with sound healing it's the same with with you know mantras it's the same with you know so yeah it's a very generic term but I mean it's it's true I mean it's vibrations on wavelengths yeah and speaking of the Ancients they were obsessed with freen frequency with Melody with sound with the mathematics behind that sound with the um geometric um sort of manifestations of sound and they had this sort of all-encompassing understanding you know look to Plato look to the pythagoreans um they had this understanding that these principles were imbued all throughout reality and you know seemingly separate disciplines you know IDE like let's say sacred geometry or something right sacred geometry is just another version of exactly what I'm talking about all of these same principles are imbued throughout mathematics um are core to um what humans find to be aesthetically pleasing um they believed core to how creation was architect all of these things are all intimately interwoven at least to the ancient esoteric mind and man I hope it's true because it's a way more beautiful way to view reality and spirituality than the way we do now a perfect segue to bring in the CIA paper right so I so I I I printed that up and I have it beside me um I don't have the missing page 25 but I did read that and it is it is available um if anybody does want to read that that quote unquote Miss page but uh I think it's important here because of a couple things um do you want to set the stage for what this document is real quick in case people don't know sure so it was written in 1983 it came out of Fort me by the commander uh Wayne mcdonal yeah and basically he was tasked to see if the Gateway process is is valid does it work how does it work and and kind of give a report on it um with the intent of how can you use it in a military sense so can they use it for spying can they use it for you know reconnaissance and things like that so it's amazing as you read this because it's so far and not that I read a bunch of like military reports but it's so far from like the clear-cut scientific like hey we're just presenting the facts because it is so dense with notes about you know meditation and Kundalini energy and and how you can achieve these different levels and um one of the the core things that that it comes out of is that time and time again it states that none of this contradicts any of the old religions none of it contradicts any of the ancient wisdom if anything it kind of confirms it um at the end they stop referencing and quoting like Hindu texts they talk about the like Jewish cabala um and I think that's where it kind of towards the end and why it was kind of like taken out was that a lot in that that page that got taken out was kind of like what we would just saying Well everybody's coming to this this realization that we are all energy it does all relate to source that Consciousness is separate from our physical body and that that's definitely a rabbit hole we can get get go down to um but the the take-home method from that 28 page report was one that that the Gateway process does indeed work but then what I thought was really impressive for the people that haven't experienced it or for somebody that hasn't had the profound psychedelic experiences that that you and I have had um like once you've seen what we've seen there's no question that that it's real or that it has a a lasting effect but for the people that haven't I think it's important for reports like this because it's a a very scientific breakdown of teral fields and what the the holographic um you know Matrix is and it's it's not coming from some wooow woo like somebody trying to sell a documentary it really is you know a government funded report and the home from that um is that yes this [ __ ] works and that we can separate our Consciousness from our physical body that that body um Can transcend space and time like even that they they they go over a pretty good breakdown of like quantum physics um and how space and time uh Dimensions that that don't really have limits um it all comes down to like an absolute like like I said reading it it's it's almost like this treaties on Ancient wisdom not not a report on Gateway um but yeah and that an important thing with that this proves I think is that it's not just random stories and I think the stories that that you and I and our friends tell are important because you know I've done DMT hundreds of times and I don't say that in a bragging way but like my body and my brain and vessel is is a great resource for anybody studying that that being said certain circles they they need more they need you know and in this case this is a a very thorough documentation on on how yes it does work um yeah and then you know we were discussing some of like the the like holy [ __ ] if this real um and there was that the the term non-moral energy forms so on like the second to last page and in one of like the bullet points it says and I've got it here it says be intellectually prepared to react to possible encounters with intelligent non-corporeal energy forms when time space boundaries are exceeded like what the [ __ ] does that mean I that that's basically saying listen be be prepared to see some weird [ __ ] interact with entities you're going interact with ghosts you're going to transcend space and time uh and just kind of like oh yeah and then signed off on it by the commander um right yeah yeah but and if if I could for for the people that are still like yeah whatever I don't I don't get it um or I don't believe it because it's when I talk about you know like having sex with angels and wrestling my demons and you know the and I'm sure we'll get into the DMT enity stories they are fantastic sounding and they are fun and but there is no way of proving them um I I'm I have no reason to embellish it I'm I'm telling you these are what I'm I'm seeing but it it's hard for people to be like n still that he could just be you know making that [ __ ] up right like when we had um Joe mcal there and I heard you talk about it a couple times and just what a [ __ ] rock star and what an amazing an opportunity to listen what he has to say but to the for the for the naysayers out there like the stuff that he's doing and and that kind of group can be proven so he's going and saying yeah the kids blue sneakers are in the red back are backpack excuse me are in the shed 30 feet down the hill and people will go find it like yeah that's John Smith's backpack or just time and time again um you know the whole Hunt for Red October where he literally found the freaking like the Russian sub and it's like well if it was fake and [ __ ] you couldn't substantiate it factually and there's so many cases where not only him but other people have refin their ability to do this time and time again where what more proof you need and I recently heard um de real quick we're we're jumping around to a few different things here so I just want to make sure people can follow um so I've talked about it before on the show but this guy who is probably the most world-renowned living remote viewer Joe mcmonagle he was involved in Project Stargate project Grill flame you know all the different monikers this formerly Declassified program went under in which um intelligence agencies were studying saigh phenomena and then and also using remote viewing to spy on the Soviets during the Cold War um and as Fantastical as that might sound if you haven't looked into it you know there's not only this Gateway report which is not uh again kind of important to establish that that's not the same thing as remote viewing but it's yet another example of a non-physical kind of um sense capacity that that humans have access to potentially um and that and that speaks to a little bit why the CIA report even occurred in the first place and to to spell it out a little more because there was this whole giant undertaking on the part of the intelligence apparatus of the United States to study s phenomena to see if psychic spying is real to see if remote viewing out of body experiences all these other things work if they're real and you know it it officially this all the inquiries into this stuff end in the 90s but when you meet Joe mcmonagle and you hear story after story after story about how he and his um co-workers I guess were successful in doing what they were asked to do to the point of them being asked hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times by different agencies to do things it becomes very clear that this was working well enough to be funded to be used to be you know even thought scary and Dangerous by certain elements of the government clearly there's something going on clear clearly there's a lot more going on than just a s up or like a um I don't know some kind of like slight of hand I I don't even know what you could chalk it up to the fact that this stuff existed for decades actively um and was actively concealed you know you you can see the paper trail now of how this was actively concealed for for decades so remember him saying too like when he in his uh will he's gonna release some some bombs about Mars and Sh hopefully I'm not getting him in trouble but it's like no and you hear his story and how he's worked for five separate presidents and how he's had his life threatened and how you know the the stress of a job like that and you have to take the stories from from the source and and I feel like he's a valid source and and I you know not to say that there aren't necessarily ulterior motives or that there wasn't money involved or ego I mean I'm not people could always say yeah well he pursued it for this when you sat there like we did for three hours and listen to him talk and then you you come out of it with his whole goal now is to help missing children and kidnap children and to help and to you know like he's and the end of his whole conversation was basically that it all comes down to to love and that we're magical I remember him saying that you know we really are magical and now I think at at this his age he's really trying to do what what Robin Monroe did too which is just yeah we need to share this information we need to put it in a context where it's not this once again woo woo crazy [ __ ] that just people like you and I are going to to go to Monroe because well yeah they're out there anyway where it's like no this this stuff really has real life applications um yeah and then I know you know what going on another tangent here but you you recently and I mentioned how you like the third or fourth part person that brought up the uh t t tathy tapes excuse me um I think that's another group of people that are proving too that Altered States Of Consciousness or elevated States Of Consciousness or or that we have more than our normal five senses um but I take them as a group of people also what is their motivation for sharing their story what is why are they doing this uh and I find that it that it seems to be authentic and true and real and um there's no way that thousands and thousands of data points from all of these different people whether you know remote viewing or some of these other extra sensory abilities that some of them are real and i' I've experienced it and I'm sure you know I I don't know how far you got into your experience there when you kind of left your your body but like I saw it in your eyes like you know it's like you you you know when shit's real and uh uh I you know that that's why I'm on this podcast kind of kick sharing my story because I I don't need to convince the the Psychonauts and the whatever the the midlife crisis guys that are going through some of the drama that I've had it's more the the mem and pepe or the aunts and uncles or the people that wouldn't even think about using plant-based medicines to share the story to be like no listen this this is this is real uh and there's a lot of different data point or a lot of different um ways that people are coming to the same conclusion and I think as importantly the quantum physicist the you know the Donald Hoffman's the whatever like I you have all these people on your show that are that are kind of saying like yeah Consciousness is something greater than and more than what yeah fundamental phys physical body is and yeah yeah man and then psychedelics now Taps into that whether it be a technology like gamore says or removes the veil or you know a right that's where I'm at right now I was trying to figure out how much information I can gather from this new yeah you presented me with so many uh Avenues to follow up on here um but okay two things jump to mind right away one is like whenever I'm confronted with a skeptic right like a lot of what we were just talking about could be construed as like evidence to convince someone so first of all if I'm confronted by a skeptic I I don't feel the need to convince anyone of anything I might give them okay if you really want to know the answer to your question like I just did this in the comments to somebody like yesterday um I gave him a list of like half a dozen names off the top of my head to look into if they really want to look at the scientific evidence for S phenomena near-death experiences um uh outof body stuff what whatever so there's that but the beauty of all of this stuff is that you don't really need that kind of evidence you can just do the [ __ ] you can just experience the stuff for yourself and that's one of the reasons I think early on was just so and still am but early on especially was so captivated by people like Terrence McKenna by people who are just like try it if you think I'm [ __ ] and then try just stop exactly just do this just do this and then let's talk and again it's not like everybody needs to do to to do DMT or psychedelic or whatever that you don't that is one great way to catalyze a kind of understanding to enter layers of experience that are not hypothetical they're not intellectual they are direct all encompassing captivating kinds of knowing that takes you into the mystery and takes you into places where your language will fail your Concepts will fail you'll bump up against every kind of conceptual limit that you can conceive of because it's so beyond concept and language and and easy boundaries that you'll you'll come out of it like in some ways a lot less sure than you were before but it's like a kind of less sure that's reassuring in some kind of way because it's like okay I thought this was it I thought this was everything and it's not I I don't I don't necessarily know but I know that there's more going on there's a lot more going on more to Consciousness more to perception more to the world and if you're ready for that you're and you're stable enough to handle that like then then I you know I can probably sign off on experimentation I I'll I'll say that but then going into the uh going back to the CIA document because I I could do multiple pieces of content on this thing it's so interesting it's such a fabulous relic of what I was talking about before the fact that there was this like if if this there's no way this thing exists in a vacuum that that's one of the points like like what I was saying before is that it is just part of one of the most well-known parts of but it's only part of this multi-decade thing that was going on in clandestine us tax funded organizations that clearly must have had some kind of payoff some kind of efficacy because it lasted for so long so so that in and of itself is mind-blowingly interesting because there's a million questions that fra where's that program right now definitely didn't just go away is it still going on what did they learn about Consciousness like how did they suppress that information from getting out were was there you know active interference to try to you know submarine people who are trying to spread these secrets about Consciousness and about what's possible with Consciousness and yeah man it's just like that guy McDonald who wrote the paper I want to know more about this guy because clearly he was a Seeker he's the like the perfect kind of person I would love to do a podcast with because he's coming at it from a philosophical point of view again the author of this Gateway report who clearly took part in it and was convinced of its efficacy to some degree like to your point he's ref ing philosophy he's referencing cuttingedge scientific ideas um you know um the philosophy of Consciousness all of this stuff and he's creating this way of understanding this this Ecology of ideas that makes it make sense in a very plausible way that is both scientific and practical and that takes a certain kind of knowledge and implies a certain like breath of experience that really implies that this dude is a Seeker like he he knows what he's doing and he's like selected to to go you know study this thing and and write this insane document that exists now and I think he knew that he had had to present it very you know not lightly but frame it in that context I think he knew that this was probably going to like end his career or that most people would look at him and be like this is you know not what probably they were expecting but that the take-home message is no this is way bigger then this this has greater implications then this is kind of like you know we we'll bring up existential and ontological questions by of people similar to like kind of the not panic but the whole kind of like alien disclosure type thing where it's like well what ises what does that mean uh if what we're saying is true and and you and I are continually saying that it's true we've experienced it uh if that is indeed the case like what that has such profound impacts on on everything yeah uh to but the time has come I mean what like um to give people an idea of the kind of thing we're talking about that you'll get in this document I'm just remembering now that I sent you and I have it here if you need me reference some of that yeah and if there's any did you did you highlight anything specific I did well just because the the the terminology that they use it's just like they know how how insane that like what this what they're saying is and know it's crazy yeah okay the the thing that I sent you was a blurb about Focus 21 which I think is a little bit out of context for people that don't know th though there now I'm remembering why I sent this to you but yeah this might be this might be a little bit we might need to explain some things before getting into this because it's just um yeah why don't you share something if there's if there's something that jumps out at you that you highlighted in the report is is so one I guess the fact that be intellectually prepared to react with aliens in essence is is what they're saying right yeah right yeah I mean that that's obviously a big one um and then you know right right at the front so right before he even gets into it and this is kind of like his last one of his last points in that opening paragraph just saying that you know I felt it necessary after completing the analysis to point out that the resulting conclusions do not in any way violence to the fundamental mainstream uh either Eastern or Western belief systems unless that point is clearly established the danger exists that some people reject the whole concept of the Gateway experience and the mistaken belief that it contradicts and is therefore alien to all that we hold to be right and true um and I you know to your point that's why I think he framed it with a lot of this this extra stuff uh with the the you know the quantum physics stuff the toroidal field stuff um I think he went to Great Lengths to say that he know he he wasn't just um hypnotized or he didn't go there and get you know he wasn't fed the Kool-Aid so to speak and it's like oh yeah you're just saying it because they got they got to you as well it's like no I think he took really the time to outline that uh you know take take it serious have you by chance heard of Ito bentov he's he's mentioned in here I yeah I knew that he had some kind of connection to Gateway and Monroe but for the third ey drops book club right now we're reading his book stalking the wild pendulum and this guy Ito bov is like this polymath renaissance man who I'm guessing was some kind of like maybe adviser to to him or teacher of McDonald who wrote who wrote this report and he is Fant fically interesting in that he I think he like dropped out of school like I don't think he graduated high school but he is like this Super Genius guy who made a bunch of money inventing and selling medical implant devices like he just engineered this stuff on his own with no formal training and sold all of these medical devices to um big companies but he also wrote this book stalking the wild pendulum which is like an all-encompassing thesis on what reality is and it it is very much seems to be inspired by like ancient it's kind of like the Gateway um philosophy in and of itself in that it you can definitely tell that it's got like ancient wisdom and understandings of what reality is all throughout it yet Bob Monroe tried to remove any kind of Dogma any kind of um associations with any particular group or particular lineage from it because he didn't want to he didn't want it to have baggage like he really wanted it to be um modernized and not thought of as a religion but as like a science as something you could really experience and verify for yourself and that seems to be the same disposition as this itsok bentov guy who like I said clearly inspired by ancient stuff but he goes deep into scientific theories you know everything from like black holes and quantum physics and holographic Universe you know he goes over all of these ideas that are Cutting Edge especially for the time he wrote this book which I think was in the 70s or maybe maybe early 80s I'd have to double check and then there's the added layer of he died under really weird mysterious circumstances like he died di in a plane crash and you know on his way to to do something that sounds very like oh maybe somebody didn't want him to do that you know like give give some talk or give some um briefing or something like that so yeah there's this interesting whole philosophical movement that's occurring around this time you know with people like Monroe this McDonald guy who wrote this report with itso bentov where understanding about reality that is slowly unfolding that really harmonizes ancient wisdom and cuttingedge Science and then it and then it seems like it I don't know maybe this is just my reading and because I like you know am turned on by conspiracy theories but it really seems like this is actively squelched by the scientific mainstream in a lot of ways and it's only more recently starting to come to light now like with our generation um but maybe that's just my my uh my bias or something I do think that there is this and again you know throw around these these terms that are kind of cliche but like this fundamental shift in human consciousness like what is the next step of human evolution um I just I I see that we are at this kind of inflection point where things are going to either I think drop drastically horrible and kind of this self destructive path or we can turn to a a better way and I guess like I mean not to try to sound like a all Savior and everything but like that that's ultimately the message that I'm trying to share with people is that listen there is there is a better way um because I I used to dwell quite a bit in the dark nasty Funk of you know suicidal thoughts and depression anxiety stress blaming other people hatred disconnection all of that type of [ __ ] and um coming on the other side of it seeing what what love and connection and gratitude and joy and all of that you know can can bring uh I think there is this kind of ancient struggle like that that truly that kind of light first dot good work birth evil um you know whether it be an Armageddon or apocalypse or and again it ties into the all of the ancient stuff that we all love and and study where they talk about this type of stuff and they talk about it pretty matter factly not you know there is some allegories and there are some some stories but um I think ancient people very clearly knew that they could tap into something higher that there were other other beings out there and um I really think that that's happening now what that means and how do we say what that means without sounding batshit crazy uh like my girlfriend you know left this morning we were sitting on the bed talking and and there's just so much weird [ __ ] that's going down in our lives personally with aliens with DMT entities with all this crazy [ __ ] and it's like is this like this is really like we really think this is happening that we really think this is what's going down and the answer is honestly and truly yes um and it's like what does that mean I just I think the next five to 10 or whatever it's gonna few years are going to be very interesting I think so too man yeah I mean it's just really really zooming out you know taking out any assumptions I think if you took a 10,000 foot view of the human psyche of what's going on in the world I would have a very hard time dismissing the idea that something else is making itself known something else is like slowly seeping into human awareness and we are struggling collectively to understand what that is figure out how to contextualize that in our lives and just to to to completely complicate this and and just throw an unanswerable question out there because it's just so [ __ ] fun to talk about and speculate about is the relationship between you know like what in that report they call non-corporeal uh energy forms or extraterrestrials do you have a strong feeling on what you think the relationship between those things is do you think they're all the same thing or do you think they're all you know uh unique things in and of themselves like yes there are real physical aliens from another planet out there or know they're Consciousness based or where's your head on oh I would thr you know throwing ghosts in there Spirits in there maybe even like Cryptids bigfoots uh you know all of that type of stuff throw it all in throw it all in so I my kind of take on it is um I think we have we are way more than our human five senses and I think psychedelics prove that to me very clearly and there are other states whether it be people that are in lucid dream states um deep meditation um people have like epileptic LOB epileptic lobe seizures um you know they have all of these different crazy Visions what I think what it is is that our brain and this is kind of Al this huxley's reducing valve um kind of theory is that I really think we filter out so much of the information that vibratory information that constantly surrounds us that when we can find ways to hone our antenna or uh you know add different layers or complexities to how we receive that energy and information um you just get exposed OS to that much more so instead of having your normal five senses dialed up to 10 you know when you're on psychedelics they're dialed up to a 100 or a million uh but then you also have 5 10 15 20 other senses that you know that's what I I don't think we have terms to describe what they are and that's kind of the point is we're getting informational inputs in a way other than our normal five senses that somehow land and stick um and obviously to are able to convey that information um and I I think once we are able to get into that elevated state or receive different levels of spectrum of energy you're exposed to that much more so um yeah I I think you can see spirits and ghosts once you're refined to it I think aliens do present themselves to the people um you know like the the Cris bled SS that clearly are tapped into something um you know whether it be trauma induced whether it be psychedelic induced you know that there's a a lot of ways uh like near-death experience people that have come back from Comas or from being drowned and stuff like that something makes their antenna more refined for me I know it was I fried the [ __ ] out of it with DMT and shrooms and because I needed to I mean I really needed to completely reset my antenna but now that it is like that um I know that I can receive more information Than Just My Five Senses and I think too once you've experienced what it feels like to get DNA downloads or to get inputs of you know a software upgrade or all these these ways that people say that that they're getting information um or that they're interacting with these entities that doesn't just leave you when you're not in that heightened State and I think that's that's where pted like this integration all like now what do you do with all this profound information how do you how do you put it in a context where it doesn't drive you nuts and actually use it in a in a way that you know is positive and I now walk around everyone you know in in a normal walking State knowing that at any moment I can receive different information and uh it's an exciting way to live because I I know I'm way more than just my my physical body and way more than my My Five Senses and I think that now is kind of like not being disputed you know there's so many people with all these extra sensory perceptions and everybody is kind of unique and magical in their own way but to say that we're just these five senses I don't think that can be said with a straight face anymore because there's too many people with personal stories to say no I saw the ghost I saw the alien uh I interact with the DMT entity I you know and I'm one of those people and I can say it it they there because I also know what clearly is a [ __ ] up dream I know what hallucinations are I or I know you know I know when my mind's playing tricks on me but then I also know when oh [ __ ] like I'm viscerally interacting with another being and uh know in some cases it truly changes lives it saves lives so the information is real that's a really important distinction because I think that there are you know I I don't I don't at all discount the mass of stories but you also have to know that you didn't live their experience and you don't know how you would have interpreted that experience so again I come back to this prove it to yourself have the experience for yourself I don't care what methodology you use I don't care if you start doing meditating doing Gateway experimenting with psychoactive stuff there are ways to experience this so if you're one of those people who you you find that your intellect it just keeps getting in the way and you keep feeling like there's not enough evidence for that I don't say that that you know how do you know spend a weekend with me yeah exactly just shut up and start trying things like open your mind at least to the idea that maybe what Adam is saying here has something to it and that's how it starts start understanding that your Consciousness and I'm already sabotaging Myself by saying start understanding it because it's not an intellectual thing it's something you actually learn through experience or at least culminates in you having an experience because I love the stories dude I on my desk right now in front of me I have a book about yung's Visionary experiences I have a book about theor I have yung's r book behind me I clearly I love [ __ ] stories right but that's why I value the experience I had at Monroe so much is because it was not intellectual it was absolutely experience-based and I do think T like increasing your in the perimeter of your information and your Concepts helps you contextualize and understand those experiences better helps you have the ability to apply different lenses to those experien is right because if you only have one lens like let's say you only have the judeo Christian lens or something well how are you going to interpret any kind of experience beyond the normal then you're going to try to funnel it into that now if you have 50 or however many it really broadens The Horizon of what you can even possibly conceive of right and that's like um McKenna has this crazy idea that still blows my mind when I think about it that until there's language for something your ability to conceptualize it as a human doesn't quite exist yet like you can't really if you can't conceptually wrap something in an idea well then that thing doesn't exist because you can't talk about it you can only understand it in this very foggy um way that you can't communicate to anyone else now this is a double-edged sword because if youy try to do something like wrap a a DMT entity or whatever in a linguistic box and say that's what it is you know you're clearly reducing it to something that doesn't fully capture it yet at the same time you're in this catch22 where you need that language so point being I think that there is this beautiful interplay between increasing the Horizon of your understanding with new lenses with new Concepts and that does help you understand these non-ordinary States Of Consciousness and the things you encounter there better but at the end of the day all you're doing is upping the resolution like little by little by little and you're never going to fully capture it and that's why you just have to experience it for yourself like yeah come up with your own terms for it yeah yeah and you know the point about other senses that's something I think Monroe talks about in his book too is that there are colors that you have never seen in the out of body State there are and this is definitely true of psychedelics too there are Sensations that you don't have like in your physical body there are things that you can experience I mean dude like here's an idea of you know an exact conceptual Horizon thing that absolutely just gave me chills the first time I read it was you know the experience of like the unbelievable dialed up perception on like a heroic dose you know where it's just you you can't say what you're experiencing sometimes is happiness or sadness or whatever it is it's just like this all-encompassing overwhelm that you're experiencing with the full intensity of your entire being it's and it's everything and it's also Beyond it the five senses right and it's just this all-encompassing sort of 360 degree multi-dimensional face melting right that's just so raw and so real and then I came across this idea reading some of the ancient stuff about how truly there's one sense and it's the soul sense like you're you have an eye of the Soul or you have this you know this 360 degree like I said all-encompassing kind of sense but it gets dampened down in the body it divides itself up it it permeates the body and sort of goes on this lower frequency but you can experience exactly what they're talking about under the right circumstances that there really is this one thing that's just overwhelming it's all emotions it's all perceptions it's all it's just everything and it's just this like like I said just this absolutely brain melting glory and overwhelming isness of reality and it makes sense why the body would tampen that [ __ ] down because you definitely can't live that way but it's incredible and it's very real well and you just say that with a smile and and to me that sounds beautiful to explore that and to truly get to know yourself but some people that's the scariest thing possible and they avoid it at all cost which is why they prescription pills and you know douse it with alcohol and you know all of that but yeah know I I think that that's going to be one of the that is everybody's main purpose in life is to know thyself uh and you know talk about condensing all the ancient wisdom like that that a lot of times it comes down to that simple phrase know thyself ultimately that's what the Gateway paper came down to like the the couple last paragraphs it was ultimately in quoted you know I think cisero or something saying like know yourself um but part of that experience that you just discussed uh is insane as it is people have to know that it's not going to be all fun and roses and unicorns and fairy dust and [ __ ] there's going to be some horrifically dark nasty Shadow work that happens in there there will be um es and flows and cycles and this is also you know where a lot of that ancient wisdom keeps repeating itself like like the all like the Hermetic principles about you know the low of vibration and things constantly have an EB and a flow and that there there is a a male and a female aspect to things and that uh you get to experience all of that now if you're not ready for that or if you just think oh yeah I'm going to take shrooms because I heard it's great H you know that's where people can have these quote unquote bad trips um yeah I I don't think if if a if you have a bad trip where you get to hold a proverbial mirror against yourself or see yourself and learn about yourself and do have the opportunity to to fix some of the most you know profound issues that you have I don't see that being a bad trip is it difficult yeah is is it challenging yep you know is it scary sometimes absolutely but I know for me that that's what I personally needed um was to to see not only the beautiful side of myself and I I can rent I know how much I love myself now in my sense of self and worth um but that that's only after I was able to do the battle with my my really shitty demons but that's an important important part of it uh it's not some easy cure all like oh yeah just go to Monroe I mean think about every time we did the debrief with all those people how many times with people balling and in tears and and you know it's it's hard uh it's it's really hard to dislodge some of this stuff but the alternative is continue on a life of stress anxiety uh the kind of path of self-destruction which a lot of people are on and when people see the light so to speak however they see it uh it it changes them it transforms them it and there's so many corny ways of of saying what comes comes out of all of this but you know I I kind of sum it up with you learn to know yourself as soon as you know yourself you you get to love yourself and when you love yourself that love just kind of translate into love of your neighbor and love of your planet and it just it becomes an easier way to live but until you can actually love yourself and know yourself um none of this matters or none none of it's possible and I think each one of these practices whether it be going into a cave for three days whether it be going to in row for a week or whether be whatever heroic dose of shrooms or DMT um the goal is to know yourself and my experience with myself with my friends with the new people that I met at Monroe is knowing yourself doesn't mean you try to make yourself perfect or or remove the Watts and the flaws or the past traumas or the losses uh not at all you you if anything you shine a light on them you bring them to the fall font you put them in the right context and then you're able to move on um and that's that's I think the the biggest takeaway from all of these esoteric practices or you know the desire to know yourself is then then everything just kind of Falls in line you know then you you normally have a nice natural Mind and Body Connection you know how to read other people's energies uh you you rest peacefully because you know you know it's time to recoup it's just no and there's there's still everyday life problems and [ __ ] but people that have seen the light so to speak uh it's awesome cuz you feel it you you can see it you can sense in them um that they're not in a self-destructive path like I was you know four years ago honestly not only would you have never been wanted to be my friend or be my roommate or have anything even remotely you know intelligent to discuss with me I was just this nasty drunk alcoholic belligerent jackass of a guy who lost everything because of that that doc nastiness and you know one thing can't be disputed with psychedelics is that it really does have a transformational um effect on people and not just you know the [ __ ] drunk like me who and and you know I go over my personal story how I really I have to take responsibility for everything that went bad in my life it wasn't like a wo was me type story but you know you hear about all these veterans and these people that have postpartum depression and the results that are happening through these types of Transformations and that can't be disputed you know so and for people that are still kind of question like is it real is it just that brain Playing Tricks on them I would kind of propose does it matter I mean if it if it's truly making people not kill themselves if it's making people put loss and Trauma into the right you know perspective or compartment in their brain um if it allows us to commune with God whatever that may be like you know these are all these are all positive things and that's that's again that was a take on from the the Gateway papers was that you know we all kind of have that same realization and to add another kind of point to that but I remember watching a video on I think it was a sound engineer that helped Bob and row make those videos I think he started his own company with the intent of it's pretty much the same hemis snc technology but then the the idea is well what do you do afterwards once you have these experiences and my understanding is like a lot of the military um studies they came back and they didn't want to use it for nefarious reasons they didn't want to use like you know their brain powers to [ __ ] over people yeah they they realized no we're going to use it for good and um that seems to be a very common theme too where once you connect to yourself and connect to Sauce you you naturally want to help right you know help your neighbor and that doesn't mean agree with that doesn't mean like you can have a difference of opinion it's just you approach it with a sense of you know what I value my own worth I know that my you know thoughts are of value and that I I have the ability to express them or the right to express them but then that also conveys to everybody else and and that's what I think is missing a lot in a lot of the dialogue today is that people don't respect themselves so they're not going to respect anybody else talking to them yeah dud as soon as you take that back it's easy to share it totally super practical example I was driving behind somebody and this like you know beat up car or whatever the other day and they just are like eating McDonald's and they just throw all the garbage out their window you know and you're just sitting behind like you [ __ ] but but then in the back of your mind you know that everything you just said is like the lived experience of that person like they don't feel valued they don't feel good about themselves they feel like Society is against them they feel like the world's against them so they don't have a problem like throwing garbage food on like remains on the ground and I don't even know what my point is by bringing that up but I think you can extrapolate that over such a large portion of society right now that it points to that there is just this all this maybe not all pervasive but this deep Soul sickness this like metastasized cancerous energy that is just deeply rooted in a large part of the collective psyche and we're not going to get at that through science alone at least we're not going to get to that through the pharmaceutical industry like this is part of the Soul having some kind of like autoimmune response against itself you know where it's so out of touch with itself where it's so amnesic that it forgets that it even exists and you've got to do something pretty drastic to wake yourself up from that kind of a funk to break yourself out of of that level of Soul sickness and it's not even just an individual thing like it is a collective thing and and maybe that's why all of this stuff is making itself known now maybe that's why whatever this other thing is that we were talking about like something else is making itself known is because it really has to like we're really at this kind of I don't know man it feel my whole life I felt like we were on this tight rope between like Collective destruction and Enlightenment or something and I really struggle man to adopt again that new age cliche idea that like oh the heightening of Consciousness is coming and everything going to be great it really feels like there is a very equal paralleling race between you know that Collective Soul sickness destructive energy and the Ascension energy or whatever you want to call it and I think the only thing that's going to tip the scalan truly is collective personal choice like there needs to be some kind of effort like honestly Global effort to experience these things personally to do that dark work to like get into the shadow to look in those places you know like you mentioned before like some people are terrified of that of that experiencing and guess what I'm terrified of it too it's it's one of the most like it's the most humbling thing I was thinking about you know the you know the meme where the guy is like sweating deciding which button to push and then there's some versions of it where he's pushing both buttons um it like that's what these experiences are it's like love and fear Annihilation and immortality it's like all of those things in the same Spectrum it's the same they're only different by uh scale or you know the same things yeah and in a strange way like what that that ties together this no thyself idea like that that's what it means like really experience all those spectrums and like extremes that's what it means to know yourself like on a meta deep level that is both healing and annihilating it's like healing through annihilation in some ways like some I don't know you know you you talk about the like the [ __ ] that throws McDonald's out and there's so many different examples of like how the hell could a human act like that so yeah why would you ever litter or like why would you ever not hold the door for an old lady or like you know how How can any country have kids that are going hungry or like I mean there's so many examples of how humans act nasty um towards one another and including themselves and I I agree that there has to be this kind of mass removal of that and and I use the analogy plaque how I think Society just builds up so much plaque on everybody and some of it is to survive I mean same thing with like huxley's reducing valve you know you you can't take in all the radio waves and microwaves and all these X-rays and all this [ __ ] like you know the whole point is you can't take in everything um but that that plaque over time bogs people down to where yeah they don't even think twice about littering in destroying the planet they don't think twice about stealing from the neighbor and then take it to the next level they don't think twice about killing or or you know kidnapping like all that the horrible [ __ ] that people do and that analogy of plaque and this is where psychedelics was that mechanical removal of it and whether people need a mechanical removal um a chemical removal or whatever it may be I know when I had that proverbial plaque remove for me it was such such a two-fold thing where not only all that that weight was removed um so that way I could express my True Light my creativity my uniqueness I could laugh I could smile I could express myself I felt comfortable in my own skin but I also now was able to receive the beautiful divine light from sauce from other people from from you know just from being connected to that energy and you know it's it's a a visual analogy but I think it applies but so many people just covered with that [ __ ] and and something needs to remove it whether it be a weekend trip to to minroe like we know happen to people or whether it be you know 50 hits of DMT like my first day um oh God that's you know like something something needs to to to blast that plaque and again once that plaque's removed it's it's not like there's not going to be traffic tickets or [ __ ] or you're never going to stub your toe again I mean life's still going to give you some some kicks in the dick and there will be some bad things but you approach it in a way uh of truly of of of gratitude knowing that everything isn't e and a flow and that everything is happening for a reason that enjoy the experience you know live in the current now don't be so caught up in the past or future um and it's such a liberating enriching and enhancing way to live when you don't have that crap built up around you and I know like in my case I was really just I was using alcohol quite a bit and I I didn't I was so um on the offense of if anybody said anything negative about me because I always would just throw in all my financial successes and my material successes and be like oh how dare you question me look how great I am and always just use that as a defense and because of that I I I literally destroyed my life and everything in it and everybody around it and only until I was able to finally be my true unique weird self was I able to to thrive again now not Thrive financially I mean I'm still you know I still got a big pile of [ __ ] that I'm working out of but i' I'd say one important um aspect of psychedelics or inner work of of trying to know yourself is you stop banging your head against the wall or stop doing the things that don't work it's not that all the problems go away if anything a spotlight is shine directly on them but now you know where to put your mental and physical energy to correct it where you know for years and years of my life I just was wasting all my beautiful mental and physical energy in a self-destructive path as opposed to a beautiful creative path um and just just that that intellectual shift of taking control over how you not only express yourself but also what energy you let in you know what what that re resonant field that you you build around you um is is super super important and those are the lessons that don't just go away um those are the lessons that stick with you for life and you know a big part of me trying to share this message too is that it just feels good like it's very easy to to not be an alcoholic like it's very easy to wake up full of gratitude and joy it's very easy to feel like you're you're one with sauce and that you know to love your neighbor as opposed to the person that's constantly yelling the person that's constantly you know yelling at the the person at the in the market line or every time they get in the car they're having Road AG where um and I don't know if I use this you know story with you at the at Monroe but I heard this story about where was on a podcast where somebody was like you know if there's one or two [ __ ] in your life well then you know they they're the [ __ ] if everybody in your life is the [ __ ] like you're the [ __ ] you know you got to take a look at yourself and if every day you're the guy that's yelling like I said in the car and having road rage if every day you're go getting home looking at the news and you're screaming at the TV if you're pissed off about making dinner then pissed off about cleaning dinner you're pissed off about like man take a step back because once you realize that life can be full of like ice cream and coffee and making love to beautiful women and walks in the woods and you know just amazing experiences like we've shared uh doing the you know that next step in human evolution becomes almost easy natural and just like a self-fulfilling prophecy because it feels good it it works um yeah there's that there's that Allen Watts I think it is quote I think it's Alan Watts where he says something to the de to the effect of you can do it like it's a great burden or you can do it like a dance you know it's it's like you're you're going to go through life one way or the other what what disposition do you want it to have um I I wanted to say too it's really interesting that you that you put it as like this removal of plaque because one of the most influential platonic philosophers platinus who if you if you haven't heard of him he is this like deep contemplative like he underscores the importance of reconnecting with Source Divinity the one through isolation and through removing yourself from worldly input and doing what just sounds like deep meditation and contemplation but from a very uh I guess like devotional almost like prayerful disposition you know of like really really reaching out like really making it so that you are Desiring Divinity with all of your heart um because that's a big difference like I think when when we when we sit down and meditate we just watch our breath I find myself kind of gravitating toward that kind of just humbleness and like almost prayerful like just just wanting to reconnect wanting to ask for for help not not with like any specific thing like please God give me more followers like not like that but but you know just like generally like want to feel supported by everything um so yeah it's really interesting because he says like you must remove this I think he says stains not plaque but it's the same idea is like it your perception your sense of self your psyche is just covered in stains with like worldly stains of like exactly what you're talking about emotional stains obligations trauma things people said to you ideas about yourself like what all this [ __ ] and that requires an undoing and you can undo it through the method he prescribes a lot of sitting down and meditating through definitely I think through hemisync through all these different ways of um going deep inside the self but I can absolutely guarantee that you can do it right now with with a with a sufficient dose of at tryptamine that's for sure um we've been talking about very meta like the a lot of this stuff very meta and you've started to elude to your own experiences somewhat your own struggles somewhat um and I guess just as a fun entry point into those experiences and into your your journey how do you think about where DMT is taking you now like now you've done it hundreds of times now that you've you know for people listening you you are the guy at the retreat waking up and and reading an esoteric book every day so you're like you're just actively in this Seeker mode so you're also like expanding your horizon of ideas and your all the different lenses that you have access to with all of that how do you think about where what DMT is doing for you or where it's taking you now yeah so I I can honestly say that DMT saved my life and that's you know I know that's a very heavy statement but it it's it's true um so I'm very grateful and thankful for the opportunity that I've had to truly I feel like every day is a blessing um this is my second chance at life and I'm never going to take that for granted uh but I'd like to I share my story and how I got into it because it's not it's not necessarily Pleasant one um it's actually horrifically dark and like I said it almost ended with me you know losing my life but it's important to share because hopefully it will prevent other people from going down that same dark path of self-destruction um so I guess maybe just in in context how I even go exposed to it uh and I kind of go over this quickly in my book because I don't want to sensationalize my own life and I think you know I just recently turned 44 anybody that's come to my age is going to have a whole series of their own [ __ ] their own you know lessons trauma loss all of that mine and I wanted to make this point though was all self-induced so I was the rich white kid from New England that grew up with you know $100,000 gift from my grandfather to stop businesses I went to eight years worth of college I owned investing a real estate investing company where you at one point I had like 15 houses um and not crazy amount but you know I had the high paying jobs where I was making 200 Grand a year the the fancy cars the vacations the beautiful women all of that um but then I I lost it all where I had restrained Ed put against me I had my long-term relationships you know taken out from under me I threatened to kill him in um there was a guy that that was co-owner of the company I worked for that you know screwed me over 900 bucks um and at that point I was just I was so thin on everything and I had this culmination of like a year and a half of just all these things showing me like Adam you could to completely change your life and um I started exploring psychedelics by getting into shrooms and I I would probably recommend that you know I I I think just jumping in right into a h quad DMT session can be a bit traumatic so I spent several months um exploring DM uh excuse me shrooms and going pretty deep I was five six seven grams um and I felt as I was getting really good therapeutic value I was holding up that proverbial mirror to myself I was doing the shadow work I was able to say the things that I needed to say to myself and really AC accept it but I didn't have that big Epiphany like that change of perspective itive that was like oh yeah I'm I'm good um and I had heard quite a bit about DMT the power of DMT you know and then a buddy of mine let me know that I had access to it and once I knew I had access to it then I then I really did as much research as I could so I spent several months you know reading Rick stman listening all the Joe Rogan podcast uh you know as much information as I could and I decided that you know this I'm going to give this a shot that I've got nothing to lose cuz at that point I I really was at the point where I was going to walk off into the woods and not come back um and it wasn't like a rash decision like I had a bad day it was I spent weeks this you know figuring out do I want to stay on this planet or not and that first day that we set aside to do DMT was um like I said that the day that just Rec configured everything in my life as way as how I perceive myself and and my my connection to other beings and in Earth um and without getting into all the details and I mentioned I took 50 hits that first day uh and I wouldn't suggest doing that for everybody and before people like [ __ ] no way um it was spanned out over about an hour and a half and it was like seven eight sessions and each session was like six seven hits and that's the beauty of DMT as well I that it only last you know seven eight minutes so you can do multiple sessions um but couple things about that day the first thing I think is important is that first hit it was so natural and so innate so all of your senses are going you know crazy but it just felt like I wasn't being drug or that I was being poisoned like you would with shrooms or LSD it felt like the veil was being removed and that I was getting access to my true self that I I was truly having what my body should normally feel like with all of those extra senses and heightened senses but you know no real crazy epiphanies other than sights and sounds um you know no entities or anything like that and I kept pushing that for like I said about an hour or so and the last the last session I had was um the one that that really changed everything so typically in the DMT session there's all these crazy vibratory hums there's sits and sounds there's entities coming at you there's you know spiraling mandalas and all this crazy [ __ ] well that last session everything stopped there was no hum there was no sounds I didn't feel like I was falling or that I was being sucked up into any portal I was just there um and I had what I considered like a a DNA download or or an upgrade or or something a conveyance of information that put really all of my personal drama and [ __ ] into into a way that I could then deal with it and an energy conversion box an energy conversion well and I think the simplest way Monroe joke for people um that that that did work though um was that I was always trying to connect all of these proverbial dots from my my past and my current and my future and I was so worked up on how I was going to manage all the [ __ ] that I got myself into how am I going to get out um and you know in that space all of my proverbial dots got connected and then those blew up and then you know a thousand dots and then those got connected and blew up and then a million dots and then a trillion dots and that the kind of take-home message was like haha you stupid human the point isn't to connect the dots the point is to enjoy the space between the dots the point is to enjoy the silence between the beat that's where the information is and you know it I came out of that with the true sense of the importance of being here now in that very second and that's where you have the only Power that you have so don't be stressed don't be anxious and again I I had now a spotlight shine on all my [ __ ] but that was that session that day was the time that I stopped looking for external solutions to my internal problems or I stopped blaming the person or that girl did that or that guy did this or [ __ ] them and I took ownership of everything and that was like three years ago and since then my life has just been this completely different changed uh life of happiness joy contentment love gratitude you know all the corny [ __ ] that I Riff on um but it yeah it it got me on this path of of what I needed to to really focus on then you know with all that then I took a year and a half off I traveled across the country uh I lived in my car I lived on beaches I went to all the national parks and I really did but um I know how fortunate I was able to do this but I I took a you know a spiritual journey of of over a year and just meditated and prayed and did lots of shrooms and lots of DMT and um now I'm just kind of just coming back to the Matrix or the reality or you know and that's and and I asked this as a almost you know rhetorical question to you and your listeners where it's like it's kind of like so now what you know now that you've seen all this how do you come back and still incorporate enough into society or the Matrix or the [ __ ] or the simulation um but not just be the guy that sits on a mountain top you know drinking iar all day right like and I'm still trying to find that balance but know I'll never go back to the rat race of right somebody else's dream or somebody else's [ __ ] well you've had first of all it's beautiful and second of all you've you've had the luxury and the gift the the hardfought gift to now see directly just how crazy this world is and like the Matrix or like capitalism or you know the world the time that we find our in and how disserved to to the soul it is and how difficult it is to find balance because it's like once you've awaken to all these things to your point the harsh realities like don't go away like you might be able to take them a little lighter you might be able to laugh at yourself more when you get those kicks in the dick you mentioned but it's they still hurt and it's still you still got to pay the bills and you still got to go like have diarrhea after you eat tacos and whatever like it's it none of that [ __ ] changes so yeah finding that balance man is extraordinarily tricky and and I do think it's like you never feel more like that I think it's from the Bible that it's like talks about how humans are like between the angels and animals or whatever I don't know I've heard that somewhere but you never feel more like that than once you start to open these doors and the the just irony of it is so striking um but thanks for setting that context but now I want to ask you the same question from before again which is like so you have this essentially Awakening I guess let's just call it that because it is I would say but how you know maybe not even how are you viewing it then but now with this context you know three years down this trail of basically ravenously seeking experiences having experiences seeking knowledge how do you think about where it's taking you how do you think about coming full circle that question the beginning how do you think about what it is you know outside the construct of like oh it's a drug oh it is a endogenously produced uh chemical compound that might be produced by the pineal gland or whatever like aside from all that technical [ __ ] like what is it you know what is it really doing I'm glad you asked me that because I I did want to clarify to we talking about like ghost and and entities and Cryptids and how I think if you have heightened or elevated sense is that you're able to be you know more sensitive to these types of things um so I I I do agree with that that being said I think DMT entities are a completely different thing a completely different space and that's where um you know like gamore talking about it being a technology where it's it's giving you access to something different that's where I'm I'm very convinced that the DMT space and DMT entities is its own thing so maybe similar to saying that your antenna can get refined and allowed to have access to different information but the DMT is like a special unique space where they are their own e or something yeah they have they move around in their own dimensional space and they don't they don't um use the low of physics that we had today like you know maybe a good example is if you're on shrooms and you're staring at the wall like you know that the Wall's melting or maybe some crazy whatever you have a whale that's going across the wall but you know that it's your your mind it's you know there is some [ __ ] that you're seeing but it's a combination of the drug and like it's a very clear like image that you're seeing um but you know the source of it DMT entities it's a it's completely different where you know just the opposite that this is not fabricated in my mind that this is not something that I'm producing and I miror um what gallamore says very he you know he makes the comment about how he he tries to every experience that we have should model something in our past or or when we try to if if some new information comes in you know we try to model it on something to try to make it make sense and if new information comes in yes there is going to be this kind of disorientating effect understand all of that yeah um but he makes the point and I Merit as well is that the [ __ ] that you're seeing in this DMT space has nothing at all like related to any movie I've seen any Alex Gray painting anything that I've experienced in my 44 years of being a white guy living in New England even with all the crazy [ __ ] that I've seen there is no way that I have the mathematical precision and the understanding of geometric shapes and how things work and how it it's just it's so far beyond anything that my mind can construct and I'm the first to like I'm I don't want to say I'm cocky or arrogant but like I know how powerful my mind is I you know straight A in college I'm able to you know have photographic memory I've read thousands and thousands of books like I'm I'm very I understand the power of my brain this [ __ ] is not me there's no way that I can make what I'm seeing in these spaces and um the personal subjective interactions that I'm having with these entities and beings uh I think that's that's something that is is I'm trying to understand my place in my role in it and you say you know how do you bring It full circle um I haven't said this to anybody yet but what the [ __ ] I already sound crazy anyway um in one of my last DMT sessions uh I really feel as though my role is to help translate that realm somehow some way and and not necessarily like DMT extended state where I'm going and try to GE you know map the geography of it but yeah I know that I'm welcomed in that space I get a bunch of information in that space um I'm received with respect and reverence there's this this interaction that goes on back and forth and I feel somehow some way um I'm I'm going to be some one of the people that takes information from that space and brings it back and puts it in a way where you know I I can not to say like I can talk to the little old lady the same way I can talk to the 20-year-old guy the same way I could talk to the the middle-aged mom or but like I I feel like I can take the message and package it specifically to the person as opposed to just with one scientific button or one whatever like uh well I saw you do this at The Retreat I mean I saw you go up to people that looked like they were having a hard time or that looked like they were on the periphery of the social group and really make sure that you communicated that you saw them and you saw that they were struggling and you saw like you could feel you know them I guess you could feel their pain to some degree yeah you give me goosebumps it almost tears my eyes because like [ __ ] man that's that's something that happens with psychedelics too is you become very empathetic and yeah you feel it yes absolutely and that to me shows that what you're talking about it illustrates what you're talking about more than you know more than words like the feeling of being around someone who takes the time to do that and acknowledge that and you know get outside because even even in these like yeah it was a beautiful communal space and you know I felt very connected to those people but you're still in your own little head you're thinking about your Journeys and your visions and your meditations and to be able to like put that aside and really go up to other people who are struggling like that speaks to exactly what you're talking about um well thank thank you for noticing that because uh it makes it difficult sometimes you know I walked away from you know six figure jobs and all the fancy stuff and all the material wealth that I could have ever imagined to you know struggle into whatever [ __ ] buy a sandwich but to know like and since we've gotten back from enroe I've gotten quite a bit of emails and texts from people saying as such that you know you you really helped and that's and that's not my message I guess that that's the beauty of it um that's the message that just comes through like you you become a Channel of of God of sauce and maybe a a great way to to say just how powerful that that was um you know at the end you asked and you were one of the first people to take off you asked that anything cool happened when you left and oh right yeah any that seen pictures of of Monroe knows that there's that huge Rose cartz like monolith in the the yard there and um you know we all there was five of us and we we put our hands around that that stone and one person um the oper singer there was able to to channel some amazing vibrations through that and then another person there who was very energetically charged was able to basically just impart her energy onto that stone and we sat there with our hands around it vibrating full of tears shaking and it's like this is it's real it's not it's not fake [ __ ] and it's like I left there having 24 people say that they loved me and from somebody that that not only I I didn't love myself for many many years but I I I wanted to take out not only myself but I wanted to destroy Society like I was going to [ __ ] blow this place up um I don't and you didn't see me with my shirt up and I'm full of nasty [ __ ] tattoos too and across my hot and big bold lettuce it says [ __ ] love but backwards so when I look in the mirror like when I brush my teeth at night every night I have that and I haven't altered it or removed it because I I want to know that I always remember that period in my life so to leave that place knowing that I had 25 people come up to me and heartfelt say that they loved me and and not not just like a oh yeah we spent the week like ah like a true one-on-one Adam I love you thank you um that was something that I I did not think I was going to take away from from that experience was that group mentality but but it it really does give Credence to the message I'm giving in the the last chapter of my book um is called Love Thy Neighbor because it it ends with with that like it it's that it's that simple um to learn to know yourself to love yourself and then to love your neighbor and then to come together as a cohesive group like that uh is really powerful and I I think that's important for people that either don't have access to DMT or don't have access to the Monroe Institute um you know it's important to know that you're not alone on this struggle or this journey and for everybody that I've known that that has done DMT it falls in their lap somehow some way exactly how they need it when they need it so like that'll happen if you're looking to have DMT done if you're um I the point of that though is just there are other people there that you can lean on that that you're not in this alone and the the power of connection and love um is is truly transformational yeah yeah we're we're we're back on that topic now of of love and outside of the Hallmark cliche materialistic reductive way that we think about it there is this profound esoteric hidden kind of love that is only hidden because it is so pervasive like it is one of those things where when you really reflect on the more esoteric ideas of what it is like so so the Greeks would call it AOS or they would call it felos that there is this interconnecting tapestry coherence sense that is just interpenetrating all of reality at all times that you very quickly logically have to acknowledge right like when you think about the coherence of reality the the the laws of physics the the fact that we exist at all the fact that there is this underlying logos as the Ancients would have called it this sensical to everything that is love and and that that's a kind of love that like you can never be apart from that you are that is all throughout you and everything no matter what you do no matter what things you've done in your past you're being like projected out of those fibers all the time and I mean you can't there's no way I can fully explain it and I'm not saying I fully understand it but just to show you how deep this idea goes there's this whole platonic dialogue the Symposium where they're talking about you know like what is love what is beauty like what are these things really on the deepest most archetypal platonic form kind of idea and it's and this is like the D that I'm going this is the direction that Socrates eventually goes when it's his turn to talk but he makes it clear that it goes even deeper than this and that he learned this from this female Priestess named deima and she basically tells him you're not even ready for like the deepest levels of the answer to this question of like what is what beauty is but here's what I can tell you and she kind of goes on a similar Rift to what what I just did about the actual uh nature of arrows is this this like this interconnecting force that holds reality together um and is this sort of like mediating quality Matrix that sort of everything Sprouts out of um but it goes even deeper than that because you can have these experiences that again evade language right like that you can't where you're so overwhelmed again in this kind of like face melting concept annihilating way and I really think if you deeply reflect on that sort of just like hyper negating force that you you will come to the conclusion that that is love it's not it's so strange because it's like it melts Concepts but at the same time it's it's a kind of goodness that is like Immortal and behind everything and is available for you to experience under the right circumstances and the idea that we might just go back into that or that we come from that is insane it's it's insane but it's that's kind of what all the the religions and ancient wisdoms teach you know you mentioned I got it here the book that I was reading while we were there at a Offa right yeah yeah and anybody listen awesome book but so the whole point of that right and it's a cult classic from like the 1800s but it's about this guy that goes into the depths of the planet um and you know this metaphorical and literal kind of travels and Journeys that happen but that Ida is Aphrodite spelled backwards yeah and like kind of the play on it is it all comes down to to love uh you know and it's this awesome esoterically loaded book with all Freemason symbols and stuff like that but to your point it all it all kind of comes back to that same that same concept um and yeah it it's it's a very you know anytime you use language it's such a way of dumbing it down um but yeah the essence of that whatever whatever that is um is that unifying beautiful sauce that that is that we are part of we we are we are one in the same of that we are a facet of that sauce and uh again to recognize and to remember that that we are part of the Divine and that we do have magic is that's really I don't say like that's it you know that but until you kind of realize that you're going to be struggling against almost everything and then when you do realize that all the struggles kind of be put are put into perspective where you know you're not looking for any specific outcomes you're really just looking for whatever that experience may be yeah what do you I mean obviously it's impossible to really you know speaking of limits of language and limits of concept I understand that it's impossible to really answer this question fully I mean you might as well be talking about something as all-encompassing as what we were just talking about but when it comes to like an entity experience or like really seeing these hyperdimensional realities that you can and even seeing isn't the right word experiencing these hyperdimensional realities that you can on a requisite dose um you mentioned that you feel loved and welcomed at least most of the time in those experiences I'm sure I'm guessing with the amount of times you've done it maybe you've had some experiences not like that but how does that come across in those kind of spaces like that this concept that we're talking about CU it seems like you're alluding to this idea that it's there like feel a hyper download of Love A lot of the time when you're when you're in these hyperdimensional spaces that I think a lot of people are afraid of so I think this is where the idea of like the the archetypes and the kind of collective conscious um a lot of times so you know the common terms um machine elves or Jesters yeah I think it's going to be unique for everybody but I I think that there is a like Ambiance and a feel to the types of energies that projected so when I say I feel you know love and welcomed that can come in a lot of different a lot of different ways so there is that gesty fun like amusement park type energies where it is all flashy lights and they're going around you know kicking you in the butt and you're doing all this fun stuff there is the arch typle um you know female energies some of them are are sexual and some of them are more like motherly there is the control not controlling but like the the mentor guide male type energy so a lot of times there's these just overall feelings uh I don't necessarily see like you know I always see Frank with a green hat or there's always the the lady with a purple dress um it's more these constantly like morphing moving kind of shapes and in blobs or whatever um but there are very distinct categories like I was asked the other day if I've ever had any like mantis interactions you know that seems to be like a insectoid type thing and and I have uh and the the theme with that seems to be they go in and show me how to properly use my human body so a lot of times you know you just talk about like how do you interact with them do you talk to them do you feel like sometimes they truly like absorb into your body and they'll show you how to vibrate properly how to pulse your blood properly how to breath everyone's going to tell you that that you're being possessed by demons right now in the comments by the way yeah I've already whatever [ __ ] them um they're good demons but no really uh yeah look into the atmology of the word demon by the way for come in and it's like they're coming in and showing me how to use my human body to its full potential like look at how amazing this is you you like almost you you have no idea how fantastic this machine is let me show you how to play and they'll come in and you know control you and show you how to how to operate your body um I've had interactions where and I think this is where the common sometimes common stories with alien abductions can also be I think maybe similar whether it be endogenous DMT or um or what but I've had a lot of experiences where I felt as though I was being examined where I you know I would go up into the space and it was almost like I was like an animal in a zoo or if I was a firefly in a field and I was you know flashing where as soon as they saw me go into this space they kind of like Flock towards me like oh [ __ ] like Adam's here Adam's here and really interested in in doing an analysis of me um I've had experiences where I felt as though my future self interacted with me which is again how do you explain that it wasn't me with a longer beard or like an older human it was just this very distinct comfortable this is me that like I was here to do a diagnostic check on myself and um you know kind of it was very clear like coming into just say hey you're on track done a good job I have had and this is where I was saying about I think maybe and again say this with a straight face that I'm going to play a role in translating DMT entities to the human race um but in the last month and a half or so I've had two interactions where I would say all of the other interaction you're getting this DNA upload or you're getting this information come in or you feel as though your senses are getting increased I would compare that to like a software upgrade I've had two things happen recently where I considered they were like Hardware upgrades where I I've truly felt as though I had something hold me down make it so I couldn't move and something was I don't know necessarily like inserted in my body but I was I was held against my will in this kind of blue Jelly space with no no entities No Visions no no things but I was just held in this vibratory home of blue and um like I don't know weird [ __ ] was happening to my to my body um where they put it it actually it went up through my so and the fact that I like it it went up through the bottom of my feet went up through my head and then out through the bottom of my feet almost like a like a laser scanner um and and and is there anything that you feel like that yielded like where you're like I don't feel like I had this capacity before that or is it more nebulous so I guess well during the experience one thing I wanted to say that was different from all the other ones is complete lack of your body senses so like I I talk about sex on DMT and doing all these cool like art projects and stuff like that so normally you have more sensory inputs this particular case it really was um I had none it was just like almost like a sleep paralysis type where I was just there coming out but I felt no negative intentions I felt nothing bad and I don't know if I'm just saying this to kind of convince myself or to make myself feel better but I truly felt as when I came out of that that it was an upgrade like I got like a stronger immune system skeletal system nervous system um I mean sounds foolish but even like going to the gym like the next day like I felt stronger I felt I felt as though I got like an upgrade to so I don't know if it was you know a a mocker that means I I can make it to the next step or if I've got a something but now it it's happened again where I've I've had that same kind of feeling but it was that something was here to tell me that hey we're we're here to kind of communicate with you and almost apologize for scaring the [ __ ] out of me last time like they were like listen we knew we knew we kind of scared but we had to do something like we had to impart what I don't know is it an antenna is it an upgrade is it whatever but again they keep changing over the hundreds of times uh so how do you put that how do you put that in perspective I have no idea well speaking of putting things into perspective have you have you read the Monroe books yet like from from Robert Monroe himself yeah yeah no oh dude okay so in so the first book is Journeys out of the body the second book is far Journeys I believe in Far Journeys he describes some very similar things to what you're talking about and this idea of being you know scared by what feel like higher beings but then also accepting like I want to know so bad what you can show me that I'm willing to like pay whatever price it is and then and then having very similar experiences after that to like what you're describing so it's really compelling to me to hear very archetypally similar experiences through different methods so for people who are just convinced for whatever you know brainwashed reason that like oh if this H if this has something to do with a super psychoactive molecule it's not real it's it's the brain on drugs some version of that well guess what you can do it without it too like if you believe I guess you could just say you don't believe Robert Monroe or that he's dreaming or tripping out there's always some way that intellect can can intervene and and I don't want to sound like you shouldn't be skeptical you should be skeptical but you should also suspend judgment on other people's experiences first of all and suspend final opinions until you've done exhaustive experimentation of your own like it's just I I was going to say apply the scientific method but I understand that it's not it's fundamentally not scientific to have an experience in your own umelt of Consciousness but the idea that it's not valuable because it's not you can't yield an empirical you know replicable data set is insane and that's to be brainwashed by this like scientific reductive way of viewing reality to a really unhealthy degree yeah and I think even the most humble of scientists or you know know they they no one knows or claims that they have the exact answer they have theories and and they're trying to understand it um but I I think the like I said the fact that there's something Beyond odd normal five senses I I I think that's been proven a long time ago and now it's just a matter of of exploring that yeah whether we get the actual answers or not um I not to say that it doesn't matter but that's not necessarily what I'm interested in I'm interested in I mean this past week I've gotten several emails saying how this help me how this help how this help like um this changed my life Adam this saved my life it's and and I'm just some smalltime guy getting some you know random emails here and there coming in and it's it's really really um empowering because I know that words can have that much effect and it's I I I really feel like we're all on this this right path and it's where whether it be DMT shrooms and psychedelic whether it be meditation and yoga whether it be walks in the woods cold plunges uh whatever you know like the information that people are gaining in these uh altered and elevated States Of Consciousness there's valid and valuable information that can save lives and and truly again not to fluff it up but really bring us to the next level of human evolution and I wanted to come we were talking about like the plaque thing it's almost like either that has to happen or there's going to be some sort of iation event where they'll be yeah the homo sapiens and then they'll be the whatever like homo enlightened or the homo like spiritual Alice or like something where like there can't be that much of a difference between human species where somebody can just clearly throw a bag of [ __ ] of McDonald's on the side of the road and for anybody that's like oh that's not a big deal then you're the piece of [ __ ] like then you need to check yourself if you think just throwing a bag of McDonald's out the window is okay because to your point it just shows such a lack of respect of the the the Earth the planet the streets all the people that clean the streets your neighbors the like the school children that have to step over your [ __ ] I mean it just if if you can't see how that is a disrespectful thing to yourself then you know I don't know it's like there's you know it's sometimes when I try to conceptualize these really just beyond the individual sorts of archetypal phenomena going on in the collect conscious and Collective unconscious or however you want to explain the only thing I can think of as a similar Cory is like weather systems or something like there are these qualities these pressures these um predispositions that are moving through us through the Zeitgeist collectively and it's weird because in some ways they're Way Beyond what any of us can do as individuals yet it's like an input output thing it's like there is input and there is output from the individual like the individual is a victim if you want to think of it of the collective but they're also feedbacking into the collective and there's got to be some kind of forceful event that puts a lot of positive feedback Into The Ether or we're not going to get this weather system under control like it's going to continue like the plaque is just going to keep building up we're going to feel more disconnected from our souls we're going to feel more like there's you know disconnected from all these ideas we're talking about and personally I don't really know how to do that other than what feels authentic for me and that's blabbering into a microphone a bunch and I don't want to make it seem like I have some super high-minded idea like that's what I'm doing by doing a podcast but I don't it's truly like if if nothing else it's like coping for me it's like I yeah it's like I feel that Soul sickness and I don't know what to do about it but I have to do something and I certainly can't just keep going through the motions of like a job and then do all the stuff like check all the boxes of you know West capitalistic reality and that should fix it like I knew from a young age that that was not going to work for me and of course you have to play that game to some degree and I did play that game and I do play that game to some degree but to leave it at that feels profoundly not just inadequate but wrong you know and I think we're under construction of how that's done but it's like you know to to try to end this on some kind of a like positive note it's like you see the seeds of the things that could shift that energy you know conversations like this maybe are a little bit psychedelics and some of these ancient philosophies and practices and introspective methods I think those are a huge part potentially but I don't I don't know how we wrap it all into something that people can easily get behind and understand and maybe it shouldn't be easy I don't know but maybe just lead by example I think you know that that's treat others how you want to be treated you start showing yourself love and respect and it like I said it becomes easy to show that towards other people um hopefully it and you this would be um maybe a good point too to to make sure we distinguish especially a lot of people that are studying esoteric stuff like this and of Consciousness there's I think a tendency to and and you said how like I I seek and I seek often and and I am I'm definitely consider myself a Seeker but with the knowledge of knowing I'm not trying to seek to leave this this body or even you know the phrase of Monroe is we're more than our physical body um every time I would say that as part of part of our prayer which we did every through every meditation I was always say we're more than our physical bodies and I think I said this in one of the Deb debriefs but man my physical body is [ __ ] beautiful man I love my physical body my physical body is so so great so beautiful and not like I'm saying my physical like you know the look body but I think it's important for people not to try to ascend the 3D to the 5D not to try to get out of this dumb down meat suit and get into this ethereal spiritual plane where you're ascended you never have to reincarnate you found your home planet uh you're back to your alien home like in my opinion that's not the the role or the um the goal of any of this yeah that sound that's stinks of spiritual bypassing for sure well point is to ascend to these higher level to ascend to these different levels of consciousness to absorb the lessons but then take them back to the this 3D World take it back to where we are time and space limited because that's where we can explore or excuse me where we can enjoy like I said the cup of coffee or the ice cream or the beautiful woman or the walk in the woods um and I think that's really important because I think a lot of these other whether you're talking about ghosts or Spirits or even DMT entities I don't think they can collapse down to our load 3D space um I you know I don't think that form can take it where we know with certain practice that we can Ascend to their levels and I think that's really important to know that we as the not the dumb down Meats suit but truly as the beautiful human Divine body uh to appreciate it as such because you can have both both the Divine enlightened as well as the biological you know physical body where I think those other beings can't have that and yeah you forget about that um that's when you forget about how nice it feels for the warm sheets and the you know the new socks and all of that type like truly the every every sensation becomes something that you uh appreciate as opposed to frown upon right right and that's why I'm not a big fan of this like essentially like Gnostic Matrix Ascension sort of disposition that dismisses the lower world as this like this evil you know prison reality constructed by some kind of malevolent God and and I don't know I don't know what it is like I would love to believe that it's a school or that it's like everything here is happening for a very specific reason or a selected reason but I I guess where my gut goes is that it's this sort of like midpoint where we've talked around so many ideas and experiences and studies that point to their being more than this physical reality than than you being more than body but to a degree into your point that is what you are and that thing is going to break down it's going to get old it's going to you know I'm getting gray hairs you're getting gray hairs had them for a while like yeah that that's all happening but that doesn't mean it's not precious you know that like like even even if it's something so so one of the ideas that really blew my mind and this was the idea of um I was bringing up with DMT being like a a symbol of something so the the the Greek words are suan or sunma that it's like this distillation this symbol of some kind of sacred reality or Divinity or whatever and uh reading this book The in the Soul by this um religious scholar and this um guy who studied platonism for his whole academic career uh Gregory Shaw he communicates this idea that really blew my mind which is that your body is a sunma of your soul like your body is a symbol of your soul oh I like that so why why would you ever try to insult or besmer or destroy that thing like yeah it's like maybe a car is a good adage like care for your car your car is great it's carrying you around it's like you know it's an extension of you in a certain way but it's also not you like you're also a lot more than your car and you're also a lot more than your body right it's well I I don't yeah can I play on that analogy too cuz I think it's important with psychedelics where you know if you have the indicator like in your car so you want to know if you're low on gas or if your your tires are low or if you're getting ready to overheat where I think so many people um don't listen to the indicated lights of their own body so they'll once again mask it with prescription pills or alcohol and instead of listening to these indicated lights they're just putting pieces of tape over them and I know that's what I did for you know a long long time in my life where I just I didn't want to hear it so you know stresses can be a good thing because they they're showing you areas of your life that need adjustment need correcting and now I look at that analogy where my control panel for my quote unquote car has a 100 dials or a thousand dials where you know I don't want to limit that or dumb it down or I don't want to see any lights oh [ __ ] that's scary I want to see everything so now I know if I'm getting a minor headache or maybe I'm dehydrated was I out in the sun too long uh if my feet start to hurt I loosen up my shoes if you know like you actually listen to your body and you become connected with it and again that's part of loving it but yeah you you don't appreciate when those indicator lights go off appreciate when you're getting stressed like you know if if you think your job sucks and your wife sucks and you never wanted to be a dad or you never wanted to be a mom or like I hate to say it that maybe you need some life changes but like don't don't just you know oh no she's not cheating on me yeah she's been cheating on you for the last 15 years like I you know maybe it's a shitty example people don't definitely don't want to hear that but like at what point do you realize like oh yeah um I get to change my own [ __ ] in my own life but you only know if you're paying attention to those indicator lights and a practical example um I mean you saw the the Audi that I that I showed up on so it's like the one remaining thing that I have in my past life that's that's nice but um the indicator light for the coolant came on the other day and you know so instead of getting pissed or getting mad or flipping out or this going to cost me money or like I calmly was like all right this is great I was just in Boston the night before I'm glad it didn't happen then then let me check on it long story short it was just the the cap from the last guy that checked it wasn't fully on so some had you know come out through pressure I had to fill it and everything's all good but if I didn't have that indicator light I would have overheated and blew up my engine and would have destroyed you know a beautiful sports car and then had nothing like you know then I really would have been asked out but it's very very similar to me running on you know overheating with alcohol and stress and anxiety before where I almost you know ran it ran it off the cliff and people I think need to um really lean into getting more indicator lights on their panel doing that shadow work doing the hard part knowing that the light and the dark and the whatever like it's all same uh ends of the same spectrum and I know that like all the low low lows that I've had now I can appreciate the high high highs that I I know I'm going to have and I wouldn't have avoided those or I wouldn't change you know any of that for anything but people it's maybe tough when people are going through the Dark Soul of their their Journey or if they're really in you know a really hard spot it's to me tough to hear but I can honestly say like good for you like I'm I'm so [ __ ] happy for you like if you're on the verge of snapping if you're on the verge of breaking if you're sitting there being like you know what I'm [ __ ] done I feel for you um I know I'd love to give you a hug in and whatever to let you know that I'm here for you and I I'll do those things but the truth of it is is you've made it this far and you're you're right there you're right ready to have that Phoenix rebirth you're right ready to have that Harrow's Journey you're ready to like I did burn everything to the ground so now I have a fertile field to just throw all these beautiful seeds and it's really really tough when people are going through that but the light on the other side is is worth it and you know that that's kind of been my my message that I can hopefully try to share with people is just get through it like just keep walking through and and truly throw up the middle finger to those demons and those devils and those monsters that are jumping on your back and that's probably the most empowerful empowering thing that's happened through all this is I was able to look at those monsters that truly were there that sucked my life away and I looked at them I took ownership I called them by name I said [ __ ] you you don't have control over me and I know that that's my own demons and my own enemies and my own inner psyche is My Own Worst Enemy and is probably the only thing in this world that can truly destroy me and now that I faced those aspects of my myself I am not afraid of any situation or any man um you know my experience with my future self I don't have any fear of death I'm very comfortable that my energy will transmute into the next stage whenever that may be um but you know having having all of those realizations happen uh wasn't wasn't easy but I also use the analogy of coming out with like Girl Scout or Boy Scout badges where you know you got that Sash and the most difficult ones are just that they're the most difficult ones where you know sash is full of badass [ __ ] badges like I've I've gotten like the eagle scout type [ __ ] and then like the plus pluses because the stuff that I've battled through but now that gives me the courage and the confidence to Bear some of that weight or those Darkness for other people to say all you need help with your monsters I'll go in that space with you and I'll kick their ass or to know that maybe I have the power to share my love when somebody needed it um and yeah it's uh to take ownership of of that aspect of your life puts everything else in perspective because again you're not worried about a job or a relationship or anything because you you know where the source of your power comes from and it's you yeah Amen brother there there's no better note to end it on than that this has been a lovely mind meld an empowering mind meld I hope um and I'm sure we can do many more yeah well you know thanks for the opportunity to share my message and I say this sincerely thank you for your uh your friendship um I said this when we were at Monroe but I really did manifest I wanted to go there I wanted um the two teachers that we had and I and I knew that you were going through a couple like Mutual fans or friends and I was just like you know I'm gonna I'm GNA hook up with Michael and we're going to become friends we G to whatever we're going to [ __ ] do some [ __ ] and um I appreciate the time and energy that you spent with me I appreciate that I witnessed an aspect of something in your life that was profound for you and that I was there to to see which is you coming out being like oh [ __ ] um yeah so no I you know I I appreciate the fact that our paths cross and um I think what you're doing you know you kind of not brushed it off but what you are doing is extremely important I think the voice that you're giving um to this type of information and knowledge and putting it in a way that's digestible for people uh is what they need they don't need more social media smut or mass media stuff shoved down their throat they need exposure to these types of information so thank you for doing what you do and man let's keep [ __ ] doing it and let's go to Monroe again so I looking at the 2025 thing they have a couple cool ones I don't know if I can make it maybe this year depending on things go but yeah we there's definitely a couple cool ones like like Internal Medicine ones and like how to really use your physiology the guidance one is the one um is it called guidance I think it might be guidance I know just looking at but yeah I'd love to try to whatever figure out that one get back there the conversation will continue on offline much love everybody and much love to you my friend it's it's been awesome getting to know you and I'm I'm you are an awesome Roommate by the way all all the like first of all just having you you you to talk to like to be the first person to talk to that that was perfect because we have such like a a shared like understanding of the world right yeah we we held space for one another similar to psychedelics really it was hot let's hold space and let that person feel comfortable but also for any he was very quiet doesn't snore doesn't you know yeah yeah I I made a bigger mess in the room than he did so yeah all right brother let's let's uh well on love I love you and thank you for uh sharing it with me love you too man before we Verge too heavily