Highlighted name: Thomas “Tom” Campbell. A mention does not establish authorship. Back to profile →
Markdown lines 139–183 · Part 3 of 22
[00:25:00] >> And I'm thinking, well, I know there's some errors because the thing bombs. I wonder what those errors are. And then right in front of me was this this printout of all of my cards. Those were in the bad old days with boxes. Boxes were that long and they had like thousand 2,000 cards in a box. >> Punch cards. >> Yeah. And I had two boxes of you I had like 4,000 punch cards. >> And I just, you know, when you when you put it in the computer, you get a print out of that. And I could see this print
[00:25:30] out going by. And I rec I said, "Oh, that's my, you know, that's that's my software that I'm writing. This is my program cuz I wrote it." So, it was gone by. It was in an ancient language that nobody even heard of anymore. It was called Al Gallal. And it was on a burrow's computer. And nobody's ever heard of that either, but at the time and I saw him going down and then one was wasn't white on wasn't black on white, it was red. >> I said, "Well, what's that?" I looked at I I recognized it and I said, "Okay."
[00:26:00] And I saw another red and I saw several red ones. So I was my mind [snorts] was asking what are the errors? So I said I wonder if these are the errors. So the next day I go up and I find those cards and I looked at them and I said oh yeah gee I forgot the exclamation sign. It was in alcohol. That was how told you was the end of a end of a statement. You put in an exclamation point. I said I didn't find that. I left that off. Okay. and I went through them, but I found a couple of them that I couldn't find
[00:26:30] anything wrong with them. I looked at them and I said, "There's nothing wrong with these." So, I fixed the ones that were fixed, put the whole decks back in again, and still bombed. I said, "I'm going to change those cards. I'm going to repunch those cards that were red, but I couldn't find anything wrong with them." I did that and it worked. There were punch errors. the punch machine. You know, these are cams and and and gears and things that do the punching and they just get out of alignment every once in a while. And this one had just
[00:27:00] moved that hole probably a half a millimeter to the fact that it couldn't read it. Couldn't read it anymore. And that's what was bombing the case. Just repunching them solved the problem. >> Wow. And up until I got to those punch cards, I thought, h probably was something in my subconscious that really noticed that I didn't put that semicolon at the end of the sentence. And that's I was bringing that boat up. But but these punch cards, nobody could look at it
[00:27:30] until it was off. I mean, it's not like you suddenly had a hole that was misplaced. >> Well, I was going to ask you, did you subconsciously know or do you think you were given you think you were given the information? >> I was just given that information. So, I knew it wasn't in my subconscious. >> Who gave you that information? I just asked for it and it just appeared. That's all I didn't get. There wasn't any who in it. I just saw this this code gone by. I said, "Oh yeah. Oh yeah, I recognize the things. I wonder what the red means." And I got this intuition. Remember, I was born with a lot of
[00:28:00] intuition. Yes, >> I still had that. And I was uh going through this. I hadn't met Bob Monroe yet, you know, that hadn't happened yet, but I was still pretty intuitive. But didn't didn't other people you were working with, your colleagues, notice you were good at this and they wanted to help with their coding? They did. And you said no. >> They did. Yes. Because if I I said no. For one, I was really busy. You know, when you're graduate students, you're busy. Particularly if you're doing experimental stuff, you have to go do that. But I helped a couple of people a
[00:28:30] little bit, but mostly I said no because I didn't really have a way of doing that. It was all happened in my own head. It wasn't something [snorts] that you really do for somebody else. It was stuff going on in my own head. So I couldn't really help many people. >> Um, >> did you tell anybody what was going on? >> No. >> So this is two lives. >> Yeah. Two lives. >> That becomes a theme of your life. >> Actually, when I was younger, I didn't tell anybody either. I didn't tell my parents, oh, I got taken out of body and
[00:29:00] did this and [laughter] that. I didn't tell anybody because I had the idea that they wouldn't understand. This was just for me. Mhm. >> And then, you know, I so I didn't share it, but I got really good at de, you know, debugging my software and people said, "Wow, you did that pretty fast. Can you help me with this?" But I would try and I'd look at it, but it wasn't the same. I couldn't help them with it. It just didn't it didn't work for other people. But it did work for me. And that was big for me because I
[00:29:30] went around with this new reality. I'm a physicist. What I do is model reality. That's what physicists do. >> And it's mostly math models of reality. Now, here was another whole piece of reality that had to do with consciousness that I didn't know anything about. And being a physicist, it was, wow, I need to find out about that. So, that was in my mind. I want to find out about that. How did that work? >> You set the intention, and I've heard
[00:30:00] the story a few different ways, but how did you get to know Bob? Well, I um went to I got out of graduate school, took a job, which all just fell right at my feet, you know, there were no jobs. That was a recession. And anyway, so I got this job, never even been advertised. Then I go in and been there maybe two months or three months. My boss, that was Bill Yoski, tossed Journeys out of the body to me, a book, and he said, "Tom, read this and tell me what you think." I'm looking at Journeys Out of
[00:30:30] the Body. really. But I didn't say that to my boss cuz he was the boss and I was a new guy. So I said, "Sure." And I read it and he asked me for a report and I said, "Well, if this guy's just trying to make money, he has a hell of a good imagination. But if this is real, then I'm interested because I found some strange things in meditation and I'd like to know more about this out of body because I wanted to study consciousness because of that thing I had had in
[00:31:00] graduate school. I was still I knew there's a lot there that I didn't know anything about. So any opportunity to learn something about consciousness, I was in for it. So I I thought that was the end of it, you know. Well, if it's for real. Wow. But how do you know? >> Well, you had already done it. Didn't that book resonate cuz you had been out of body as a kid? >> No, I didn't remember any of that. >> You didn't? >> At that point, all that when I >> Someone sent me a clip of myself from about 2 years ago. I watched it and
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[00:33:00] and about another month went by and my boss comes and he says a bunch of us found out that Bob Monroe only lives about an hour 45 minutes away from us and we've talked to him and he's inviting us out because Bob was looking for scientists to help him justify, you know, with science what it was he was doing >> because he went out of body by accident, right? At first, >> the first at first times it just happened to him. He didn't try, >> right? >> It just happened. He couldn't stop it from happening. He thought he was going
[00:33:30] insane. He went to Charles Stard who was a psychologist and said, "Am I going insane?" Charles said, "No, I don't know what's happening to you, but you're not going insane." And then he started playing with it and keeping his diary, which became his book. So he was in he had already published the book probably a year or so before I looked at it and he was looking for some scientists that would help study consciousness with him and he built this building that was going to be the lab but it wasn't anything in it. It was just a building and he had what he called units in the
[00:34:00] building which were acoustically isolated three three booths. The first one was also a Faraday cage. It was had metal surrounding the whole thing. That's when I always got in. And then we left an empty one between us. And Dennis always got in a number three. >> Dennis uh >> Dennis Menick. >> Men. >> He was also worked the same place I worked. And when I I didn't know him, but we were all in the two cars full of people from where I worked. All technical intelligence. We went out there and I met Dennis there basically.
[00:34:30] I didn't know. He worked in a different division and place than I did. So, um, yeah, we met Bob and, uh, I was wondering, does this guy make this stuff up? But Bob was just as straight as you could be. He was, uh, very open, could ask him questions and I asked him some hard questions. And I got a little trouble that they said, "That wasn't a nice question." And I said, "But I wanted to know." And, uh, he answered it very, very well. >> He's a practical guy. >> Yeah. He was a very practical guy. He was a businessman, you know, and
[00:35:00] >> you know, he's this is big manor house on the hill with the whiteboard fences, the horses, the lake, you know, the whole thing. So, he obviously didn't need the money that he got making a book. >> Nope. >> You know, he had, you know, that was something he did because it happened to him and he had a strong push to share and that was risky for him. You know, he wasn't in a business where you could be too weird and and still do well. >> Was he still in the radio business at that that time? No, he had moved to this was Charlottesville. Okay. Virginia.
[00:35:30] >> And he had moved to Charlottesville. He had left that that was in Richmond. I think he had that business in Richmond, but he moved to Charlottesville. Bought this Manor House. And >> he became the only cable company in Huntsville. It was Jefferson Cable. Thomas Jefferson's house is is there in Charlottesville. So Jefferson Cable >> and there wasn't any competition. So he wired all Charlottesville with cable. So he was the cable company in a decentsized city in University Town. So