Markdown lines 326–471 · Part 3 of 5
wasn't a fantasy. So as a result, they decided Congress decided to give more money to the
project. And we went, we went false, full time as a collection unit, and the first name of that
collection unit, because we went from a study in it to a collection unit, we lost the name.
30:58
We lost the original name, and we became grill flame grill flame that lasted until President
Carter gave a interview to some people and talk to some news. This people, news people. And
they asked where he had gotten the information from that allowed him to find the bomber. And
he said, we got it from our psychics. He happened to be holding a green folder in his arm here
with a red stripe across it, and it said grill flame on it. So we lost the name grill flame. Now we
got to rename center lane and everything got moved around and changed. So we are center
lane for a while. And then we became too important for the small. The small people that were
running it thus the army intelligence was taken over by the Defense Intelligence Agency, which
was the center for handling all intelligence for America. And when it got taken over by dia, the
name changed from center lane to Sun street. So when we became Sun Street is about the
time that I came up on my retirement, I had been a member of the project for almost six, six
years, six and a half years. And so when I retired. I retired from the project and was hired by
Stanford Research Institute, to come to California or to do work here in Virginia for California,
which I did. So I started doing remote viewing from here. I was attached to the Stanford
Research Institute until it was closed down in 1988. I went from the Stanford Institute when I
was let go there. I was hired, I was let go one day and hired the next by the lab that did
science applications, International Corporation. They didn't they didn't want to shut it down at
Stanford, but some political problems erupted there. So they moved us to Science Applications
International Corporation, which was managed by the CIA. So if you if you believe what the
what the man said on the interview, after our project was outed, that the CIA had no real
interest in it, you'd be wrong, because they, we did work for them for approximately 12 years.
years produce results on over 260 targets for them. So I think it probably worked pretty well. I
worked there Science Applications International Corporation, till the project was formally
closed down in 1995. By then it was being run by the CIA and the Defense Intelligence
Agency. When they they decided to close the project because it was taking on too much heat.
Nobody, politically nobody wanted to be caught dead using psychics. And so as a result, they
closed the project down. In that period of time, I did something in the neighborhood of 300
targets, probably close to 10,000 remote viewings. And in the last two years of the project was
the only remote viewer the previous five that I worked with All retired or left, or died before I
retired, and I turned out to be the last, the last remaining target handler, so to speak. So I was
doing the remote viewing for two years alone for the entire project. As a result, I was having a
lot of a lot of trouble with what I call my cooldown. My cooldown was where I went from one
target to another target. Usually, I was doing somewhere like four to six targets a day, 20 477
days a week. And after a while, you get a little bit tired. And so my cooldown was taking longer
and longer where I tried to empty out my mind from the target I had done previously, getting
ready to do another target. And that cooldown period was getting outwards to about an hour
and 20 minutes, I guess, somewhere between an hour and an hour and 20 minutes. As a
result, get that water. The lieutenant who is now a captain, brought me to the Monroe Institute
and introduced me to Bob Monroe. That was in 1979. About 1979. Well, we talked the military
into hiring Bob to try to help me with my cooldown period. And they were secondarily
interested in whether or not I could actually learn to control my outer bodies. They saw that as
a probable secondary targeting mechanism. So I came and I started coming to the Institute on
a regular basis. I would come on long weekends for approximately 14 months, the long
weekend. Basically, I would finish my remote viewings on a Thursday night, would come to the
Institute and arrive here late Thursdays. And then starting Friday morning, I'd be in the lab with
Bob until until Sunday night. And then I would get up about four o'clock on Monday and drive
back to Fort Meade and start remote viewing again. So I was doing a lot of remote viewing
back then. And a lot of things were VM and row what we were able to accomplish using Hemi
sync in that period. In that particular period, bob cut a back end we use tapes. So he kind of
tape for me that was very, very similar to attend state tape, it just was tweaked a little bit for me
look make it a little more effective for me. And in so in that period, I was using that tape to do
my cooldowns I listened to the tape and it was starting to reduce my cooldowns from an hour
approximately an hour down to something like three to five minutes between our Mo feelings
that proved to be really effective at helping me destress from doing the many remote viewings I
was doing back at Fort Meade. So it worked extremely well for getting the mind right for doing
a remote viewing. Secondarily, we were effort trying to he was trying to teach me to control my
antibodies, which turned out to be a hell of a job for him. And not so bad for me because I did a
lot of sleeping in the in the black box. I think Bob was getting frustrated with me. But eventually
we were successful, I was able to control my out of bodies that was formally tested and proven
to be every bit as effective as anything else that I was doing. Somewhere in there. When they
decided to shut the project down. I decided that I would spend more time at the Institute in
which I did. And I've been doing that ever since and trying to train other people or at least
share with other people what remote viewing is all about. Remote viewing is not about
describing things in absolute detail. It's not about knowing what the target is. In fact, remote
viewers should never know what the target is. If they if they target an automobile. Then they
should be able to give you all the details on an automobile and never know what what it is
they're targeting. The reason why is because it's the details that are important. What the thing
contains how it operates, what it might do, the effectiveness of it, the operational strength of it,
if it's easy to build, easy to build, all these things become important intelligence. In intelligence
acknowledges, and you don't need to know what the object is to produce intelligence about it.
So there's a mistaken, mistaken impression that remote viewing is about describing something
in detail, and getting to know what it is specifically. But that's not what what remote viewing is
all about at all. It's about producing details about something, everything but knowing what it is,
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the person who does a remote viewing should not know what it is they're looking at, because it
keeps their mind open, open to whatever the details might be. I love the institute. I believe that
the true strength to remote viewing has nothing at all to do with remote viewing has everything
to do with a discipline and a mind. With a discipline mind, you come to understand a whole lot
more about reality. Life is what it means how, where your place is in it, what your strengths are
your weaknesses are, I think it develops a deeper a deeper understanding for who and what
we are and why we're here. And so remote viewing for me has always been a more of a
character builders than not. And so I see it as something that's not not so much a weapon as it
is a method for becoming better at being human. I could be wrong that I doubt it. I set spent
numerous times in Russia, with our opponents with the people who develop their psychic
abilities. In use them against us, it turns out that ours were profoundly better than theirs. And
they were amazed at we were capable of doing. I did a couple experiments with their top
psychic while I was in Russia. And they won't let us copy those experiments and bring them
home. They were they were scary to the Russians, I think we we had a very big impact on
them. As a result, we've done research in a number of places overseas. And as far as I know,
we're still doing research. We're now working with two other countries in the development of
remote viewing, and continuing to research remote viewing. We've published four books on
remote viewing that contain all of the science since the very beginning to present. It's about 1.8
million words. It's a huge history history. So anybody that says remote viewing as real as lying
through their teeth, then they don't know anything about the science and they haven't done any
reading of the background history. And that that pretty much has everything I want to say. I I'm
glad I'm glad I went into the remote viewing program. And I'm glad I spent my time there.
Because I think it was much more important than anything else I could have done while I was
in army intelligence. Anyway, that's pretty much it.
Susan Smily 44:21
We do have a few questions for you, Joe, as you can imagine.
44:26
A few maybe
Susan Smily 44:28
I would, I would like you to start off with one of my favorite stories which I have probably
shared inaccurately over time. But I remember this from one of the sessions I did with you
where you talked about being asked to go and find something that was in a room at the back of
a building somewhere in China when you came back. They didn't believe that you saw what
you saw. And you said you could rebuild. They didn't believe you understood What you saw,
you remember that?
45:05
I had, I had some gentlemen come to my house and asked me to. And they were from Intel, an
intelligence agency. And they asked me to, if I could do an out of body and find a certain
building. And I said, I can try. This is a particularly difficult thing to do and the out of body
condition because you get distracted by a lot of things. But if I could find the building, I was
supposed to go to a certain floor and there was a vault type door on a room and in the room
was a table with an object on it, because I get to the object. And so I said, Sure, certainly. It
took I remember, it took something like three and a half weeks for me to do that I had
numerous out of bodies, it was very difficult finding the building. They don't tell you where the
building is, eventually found what looked like the building, and went to the right floor, pass
through the vault door, and found an object sitting in the corner like dad said, it's a very odd
object. But I pushed my face into it and studied it in detail. And then woke myself up and went
into my drawing room and did some drawings, very detailed drawings, the best I could do
anyway, on this particular object, rolled it up and put it in a tube and sent it to him. And it was
about a month and I had two people come to my home and asked to talk to me about the thing
that I had done. And I said, Sure. And they came in. And what they wanted to know is where I
had taken high energy physics, and I said I had taken it nowhere. I don't know anything about
high energy physics. They said, Okay, who do you know, that's a high energy physicist. And I
said, I only know one physicist that said, May, I worked with him for many years, but he's a low
energy physicist. I didn't even know that was a low energy physics. But that's what that told me
that he did. And so that, okay, where, where? Where do you check out your library books. And
about that time, I was getting the idea that they didn't believe what I did. So I gave them the list