Markdown lines 637–825 · Part 5 of 6
some of our data is going to look at to. I think your alpha beta was probably not necessarily
that it's not occurring when you pull away the Alpha stimulus. But maybe if in the middle of that
presentation, you reintroduced alpha, at the same time as the talk that was going on, you may
in fact, reintroduce the alpha and show a stronger relationship. Yeah, obviously, it could be
dropping with Delta and whatever. But yeah, we're introducing it might add to it. And the
second comment is, you know, you started some of the way work with a full headset of
electrodes. And maybe that overall pattern may be occurring more consistently, where the
relationship between certain areas have
1:02:19
some sort of pattern analysis concept, rather than your basic EEG waveform analysis. Yeah,
really good. Good ideas. Whenever you do a study, not only do you have your colleagues
having these wonderful suggestions, but when you get started yourself, you decide there's
10,000, things you want to know. And then as you start to design your study, you had to say,
let's reduce that to only 1000 things I want to test for. And if you're really smart, you get it down
to maybe under a dozen. If you're lucky, it's maybe two or three or four things you're gonna
1:02:55
skip. I was wondering why, why your neighborhood why Saito was not included.
1:03:04
Since you, since you already had the electrodes on, you're already measuring in, you're
looking at discoloration. So I was curious about that.
1:03:11
The data is in the data. However, the test tape that we used with data curves off after the
fourth stimulus. So in the tape that we made years ago, when we designed this test tape, the
theta didn't persist throughout. So we didn't test it. Now, why didn't it's because we were
targeting similar kinds of frequencies that matched what goes on now, in focus 10, for
example, with beta window is four cycles per second, which is included in the matrix of one to
four being Delta.
1:03:53
Within the Hemi sync philosophy, we call the beating patterns and the use of this training
wheels. In your studies, looking at the idea that the people who have been exposed to Hemi
sync before, basically did no better than the people who are new to it. How are we going to
figure in now that attitude that we get rid of using crutches and training wheels, you know, to
be able to just free fly without any of this?
1:04:31
That's an excellent question. I was initially happy to see that there was no difference because
when we bring new people into programs, we have a variety of experience levels and
programs. And I wanted to be able to say it's okay, if you've never done this before. You've
never meditated day in your life. This will still work. And so that study supports that. However,
to answer your question, it seems like what we need to do is to quit. Let's let me rephrase that
what somebody needs to do, what somebody needs to do is to put a variety of people who
have had various experienced levels into a situation of no sound in say, go to your favorite
meditative state, and see whether or not people who have been through a program do better at
getting out of meditative state. And then people who have
1:05:25
a couple comments skipped one was, you know, in terms of looking at what you're looking for,
you might simply increase the numbers and increase the power. Maybe if you increase the
power, you start seeing the correlations. The other thing is about alpha is, you know, there's a
range of alpha that people have, I'm not sure how you were looking at that. But it might have
been harder to capture a correlation, if you were if the people that you studied didn't have
alpha didn't really corresponded tightly with the frequencies you had on your tape as opposed
to Delta.
1:05:58
Sure. The original theories of using the Alpha was, again, years ago, we were talking with Dr.
Ed Wilson. And we thought, you know, when you first lay down, you close your eyes, you're
gonna be in resting state alpha, what if we gently move the tones from where you are into the
deep Delta? Would that be a smart way to do it? So I have to admit that years ago, when this
test was designed, that was our thinking, that we thought, well, maybe they would move in that
direction. When the numbers come out, it doesn't look what it looks like. That's what people
did, they did drop their alpha and increase the Delta. But we can't say that the numbers of
taking away the alpha, were causative in any way just by numbers. But I think that you're
absolutely right, we looked at an eight to 12 hertz window, if we were to calibrate each subject
as to where their normal resting state, if it was, and then go back and look at that and say,
Okay, for this guy, he's a tender, it's Alpha kind of guy, what happened with his tender, it's
alpha, that we might find different numbers.
1:07:05
First, and then you can hit
1:07:07
it. I like the short version of my report a lot better, you know, having seen works.
1:07:19
I was curious about about the issue of the training wheels. was two points. One question is,
when you had these people in the lab, were you asking them to do anything? Or are you just
asking them, at least my understanding was to do ask him just to respond to the tape, which is
very different than what they would be doing if you said, now go into trance now go to focus 10
1:07:44
Is that correct? I understand that. And this is all the realm of confounding variables. In this
particular examination, I tried to be as circumspect as possible in the tones regenerated by the
computer, and they and the timing of them, and the recordings of the EEG were generated by
computer and the timings of them, you know. So you're right, I did not say perform in this way,
and then measure their performance based on their subjective power to do so. I tried to level
that playing field as matter of fact, you didn't really check the training phenomena, or at least
one aspect of it.
1:08:27
I did a, you know, one or two person investigation, which I reported a few years ago here and
asked a subject to you know, go through a state self induced and and compared it with the
effects of, of moment of revelation. For what it's worth the the peaks that showed up on the
EEG spectrograph were more robust, they'll have the same overall form as the personal trance
state, but that was just one two subject kind of
1:09:05
what we can extrapolate from learning theory that the training wheels effect probably works
you know, if you can learn how to do this, you can repeat that if we look at this and just a some
simple human behavior. Not for me, but Susan wants to say something.
1:09:26
Don't take the training wheels away. Okay. That's all.
1:09:32
We have a question up here.
1:09:36
I just had two quick questions. One was, what time in the morning was your morning to that
happened? And the other question was, was there a large age variance within your group?
1:09:47
There were there was not a large age variance. Most everybody was 30 to 50. There were
some outlying teenagers and outlying elderly but The bulk of the popular 15 of the team, you
know, we're in that 30 to 50 age group am usually 10 o'clock, a few outliers at 910 o'clock and
two o'clock in the afternoon
1:10:19
I did think of that when you mentioned the morning delta versus the afternoon delta. And I
wonder if some of those morning Delta folks are able to get it so well in the morning, just don't
eat it in the afternoon. And we know that you know, they can get that extra sleep at a more
efficient sleep.
1:10:34
Sure. See, I wish that we called it these like little invisible long brainwave machines the guy
was because, like, I've been use him a second like to open spaces where people just walk in
and out. And they don't even know what what they're getting into. They just think they're
coming into a room that has no fuss at him, you say to me, look at me know what's going on.
And, and then we come back to me three days ago, what happened in here? Because
something really happened to me. And it was really feeble technology, you know, just like a
really big speakers on it. Yeah. And they report an error, even though they're asking me, do
they happen? Because the whole moving, and everything changed on me, you know, and I
was going, Yeah, something happened, here's what happened to you. So that was like one of
these totally blind things. It's not even experiments, you know, sure. I
1:11:37
understand that this, I talk about in the written paper, rhythmic pulsation, as being what we're
after here, Hemi sync is the modern, you know, stereo version of what this is. But natives have
been drumming for years, have been using the reflections back off of rocks, playing
instruments, all sorts of different things to get the same kind of effect. So playing it over your
speakers, you know, my wife, who worked in a nursing home would take her boombox in there
and put music on, you know, and it wouldn't take but a couple hours, when everybody be
gathered, sitting around talking, you know, gee, it's so nice in here. I wonder why it's so nice in
here, you know, kind of 10 minute situation. So, you know, looking at the science of this, we
have this ongoing kinds of things that Ray has done, and others of you who have done some
sort of outside operant measurement scaling, here's the changes in the change, to the depths
of brainwave kinds of things that I've been doing, and as well as you observing people's
behavior and people's changes, and knowing that it happens. So there's a wide spectrum of
looking at what's going on here. You know, Bob has given us
1:13:11
not a question. But my favorite personal experience was I were working with a little girl five
years old, who had drowned six weeks before in the hospital. And when we came in, the nurse
had aspirated the little girl's throat, and all of her muscles were really tight. And so I asked the
father, if he would just use some of the metal music, we went back to talking to the mom, and it
was about 10 minutes. And all of a sudden, the dead set, oh, my God, look, well looked and all
of the babies muscles had gone back to their normal position for the first time, since she'd
been pulled out of the water. And then everybody came in and was there the whole time, up
until the last five minutes of the music, and then they slowly went back. And for me, that scene
was believing nobody in the whole place knew anything was in there. And for me, I just it was a
profound, numinous moment for me. And we gave them the music to us from then on, on the
physical therapy. And they said that they actually got all the muscles back in the brain in half
the time of using it. Thank you.
1:14:24
On a personal note that I don't think I've ever really shared this with you skip, I did write a
report about using the timeout CD. And I use basically the delta theta tracks and track seven
which is the restorative affirmation, and I use it on my every night on repeat. during times when
I've been away on a trip, moving or whatever, and I haven't plugged in my CD player or
whatever. I'll forget about it. Totally. And you would think that I would be absolutely entrained.
And then I could do it myself just using your command or whatever. And because perhaps
because I think that it's chemically induced, that there's a chemical imbalance in my brain,
perhaps that's why this occurs. But when I remember to put the CD back on, and by the way,
every time I've disconnected, I feel, I just go down the tubes. So and whenever I plug it back in,
I'm fine within three days,
1:15:38
which is kind of coming back to the comment of you said, don't take away the training wheels
effect, because we, and, and I think that, you know, we like to tell people that and I, myself am
a big advocate, the people that come to the program, and I say, you know, your experience is