Remembering Robert Monroe and Journeys Out of the Body with Tom Campbell, author of My Big TOE -- IFiEobvvA7A

[00:14:00] consulted with to see whether or not he had some physiological problem or whether his sanity was solid or what. So he got then connected with Charlie and they did some experiments and things together and then Charlie became a good friend of Bob's and they they did do some experiments. So that uh I heard about that from from Bob but I don't think I've ever really met Charlie. Charlie died about a month ago as a [00:14:30] matter of fact. I believe it was just a few days before you and I met. Oh, how about that? We will be publishing a book soon with 16 of my interviews with Charlie. Oh, neat. So, working with Bob, he put the phrase out of body experience on the map. He did. And uh I guess I can forgive him for that, but out of body is just not the right term. I mean, it's the way most people [00:15:00] think of it. They think that their consciousness is inside their body or their spirit or their soul, whichever they want to say, and that it somehow comes out of the body and then moves around in the non-physical world and so on. But it's not like that. It's not that this spirit lives inside your body. It's not that way at all. It's to be more accurate, you would have to say that not that you get out of your body, but that you get out of your mind. But that has another connotation that isn't [00:15:30] very helpful, you know, being out of your mind. But you're already out of your body, your consciousness. So the body in my world is an avatar, a body that's computed, and consciousness is what's real and fundamental. So in that case, out of body just is the wrong way to look at it. But it's the natural way that people that people look at it. It's the It's kind of the obvious way that people look at it. Would it be fair to [00:16:00] say that rather than the consciousness being inside the brain, the brain is inside of consciousness? Yes. Well, the brain in my model is just computed whenever somebody cuts open or you know looks inside of a skull. Other than that, it's not even computed. All of the memory, all of the processing, you know, the thinking and and so on is all done by consciousness. And consciousness is fundamental. And in my world view, you [00:16:30] are a piece of consciousness, not a body. And you are making all the choices. You're the player of this avatar. Mhm. And just like in, you know, virtual reality games where the player makes all the decisions and all the choices for the player and the player's just computed eye candy so that you can see what's going on on the on the board and who's interacting with who. That's the way it is here. So, you're a piece of consciousness making all the choices [00:17:00] for your avatar, a physical body. And there's a good reason why that is and and a good reason for, you know, why that came about and and how it was done and so on. We can get into that later, but uh more about, you know, Bob Monroe first. Well, I should let our viewers know that while you're here in Albuquerque, we plan to do a lengthy series of interviews. We're going to go into real depth on uh your theory of everything, your big toe, and we'll revisit this idea probably many times [00:17:30] along the way. So, my goal is that after we complete this series of probably about nine hours or more of of interviews that our viewers will have a good sense of what My Big toe is all about. Yeah. Well, that's good because it's such a drastic paradigm shift. Mhm. It's way further than any other paradigm shift that we've ever gone through. I [00:18:00] mean, we went through a paradigm shift and the earth wasn't really at the center of the universe. The earth wasn't really flat. And all of these were paradigm shifts that took hundreds of years to kind of shift in the general population, you know, their viewpoint of reality. And this paradigm shift is probably 10 times larger than both of those put together. So it's a really big reach. But once you understand it, it simplifies everything. And all of the [00:18:30] paradoxes in science, paradoxes in philosophy, paradoxes in psychology, even you know some new ideas in mathematics, you know, just fall out of it and it really solves a lot of problems. So if you look at it just from its ability to solve problems and it's a very good model. If you look at it from how easy is it to to to comprehend and get your your mind wrapped around it, it's a tough one. It's hard. It's hard to do. [00:19:00] The benefit for our viewers for us talking about Robert Monroe is we're starting out with paranormal experiences. And it seems that one of the most difficult problems that intellectuals of any sort face today is coming to terms with the paranormal. So I thought that would be a good starting point. That is a good starting point. The paranormal happens only through the intuitive side. It doesn't take place in [00:19:30] the intellectual side. And that's a a difficult point for many people to get. They think that the paranormal ought to be just like the normal. You ought to be able to test it the same way. You ought to be able to hold a measuring stick up to it. Uh it ought to, you know, if it works that way, it should always work that way. You know, in the in the physical world, any researcher can perform that experiment anywhere and it has to be the same. Well, in the intuitive space, that's not the case. So, that makes these paranormal things [00:20:00] not only not normal, but of a whole different class altogether. And it's difficult for a lot of scientists and other people to kind of get that difference. It has to take place on the intuitive side. So the consciousness has two um two pathways, not quite the right word, two different ways of processing information. That's a better term. And one of those ways of processing is through the intellect. And the intellect has this tool called logic. And logic is [00:20:30] wonderful if you have enough information. But as everyone knows, logic depends on a great deal of information. You not only have your, you know, your your premise, what you're trying to to do, but you have a lot of if this, then that, and if that, then something else. And you have this chain. And you have to understand all of that. You have to have information about that before you can really be logical. I'm talking about deductive [00:21:00] logic. Okay? So though we feel like we are logical people and logical beings, we are not nearly as logical as we think because there's just requires too much information and all the real important questions in life like who should I marry? What career should I pursue? Should I quit this job and find another one or should I stay here? All these jobs do not have a logical solution. You [00:21:30] don't have enough information. You need a crystal ball to to make those decisions logically. And all the things that aren't so important, like where did I leave my car keys? Well, those are easy because you say, "Well, where did I go after I got home in my car? The car's in the garage, so I know they're in here someplace. What was I wearing? What coat did I have on? Where did I go when I came into the house? what did I do next? And you can almost always come up with [00:22:00] the car keys in a little short amount of time because you have enough information. So, we're not really all that logical. The other side, since I talked about the one that I'd like to mention is the intuitive side. The intuitive side doesn't deal in logic. It's completely beyond logic. You can get information there and you have a access to a lot more information on the intuitive side than you do on the intellectual side. [00:22:30] All those things that you don't know on the intellectual side, you mostly can know on the intuitive side. So we have this logical side with a great tool but very ratty information. And over on the intuitive side, you've got no logic at all, but you have this all this information, but a ratty tool to access it. And I call it a ratty tool because it depends on your attitude, your state [00:23:00] of mind, your u your beliefs. There's just a whole lot of things that it depends on. And you may be able to access that information now and an hour from now you can't. It may have happened last week, but you can't repeat it again. So that's why I call it a ratty tool. So it's it's not that kind of a tool like a screwdriver. You know, it always works the same way all the time everywhere. This is a tool that is your [00:23:30] awareness, your consciousness and your state of mind which changes for many people minute but to minute but certainly dayto day puts you in a totally different space and a different way of connecting with that information. So you got the intuitive tool, lots and lots of information, but a real ratty tool to pick it up that's very problematic and sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. And on the other side, you've got almost no information, [00:24:00] but this wonderful tool called logic that can just precisely do almost anything. I think it's fair to say Robert Monroe exemplified both of those tools, intuition and logic. Mhm. And actually that is the best state to be in. If you are just intellectual, then you have all those downsides that you don't have enough information. So you're always guessing and half the time you're wrong. If you're only intuitive, well, [00:24:30] people make fun of you and call you an airhead and you come up with answers and nobody knows how you got there and you don't know yourself how you got there. It's just something that you've learned how to do that you can sometimes control and you don't really understand it either. So you can't explain it to anybody else. So those are the you know those are the problems that that u that you have. Well I gather that in your [00:25:00] work with Robert Monroe you cultivated an even more pronounced intuitive faculty. I I did you you need to develop both you know as a physicist my left brain my logical side I had honed as much as I possibly could because that's the tool that you need to do physics my my uh right brain I came into the world a right [00:25:30] brain dominant person when I was a young child I was very holistic in the things that I saw I understood a lot more things than logic would have let me know. And uh like for instance um my family would go on a trip and you know how children are after about the first 10 minutes they say are we there yet? You know are we there yet? Well in the first 10 minutes I would start to chant and I had this little chant that I made up and by 10 minutes into the trip I was gone and I came out of it when somebody [00:26:00] said we're there and I said oh good. And for me, the trip only took 10 or 15 minutes. So, it was an easy trip. My sister, who was sitting beside me on the back seat, was very annoyed because I she had no one to play with. She's 2 years older than me. You, in effect, put yourself into a trance. I put myself into a trance and because it was boring and long trips. So, I would just drop out and come back when it was done. And I I had an intuitive sense that I could [00:26:30] affect things with my mind and with my intent. And I would practice things like making the lights turn green when my father who was driving the car got to the light that it would turn green. And I could sometimes get like six, seven, eight lights in a row that were green. So I just knew that that was something that could be done. So I came in very rightrained and intuitive. But I soon realized that what I needed to do was to become more balanced and I needed to work on developing that left brain that